Attitude towards the military?
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05-04-2013, 08:04 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
Sometimes the military gets it right, but it's been a very long time since it got it right by anything other than happenstance/accident. We fought in Korea to "stop the spread of communism", and in doing so (arguably, of course), prevented a take over of the south by the north, which I'm sure any North Korean defector will tell you was the most altruistic thing that has ever happened in all of human history, as it allowed him to escape a little easier from the religion (yes, forced cult leader worship in a socialist country) of Kim Jung whoever-come-lately. So is it a good thing that the people of South Korea do not live under the North's flag? Absolutely!!!! BUT we were never there to help anyone but our own wealthy, or anything other than our own international prestige. So if your lucky enough, you'll be part of something that happens to turn out good, but the people sending you in aren't worried about good, so you're rolling the dice! Personally, I'd never join a military that pledges it's allegiance to a flag, instead of pledging it's allegiance to the people, whoever those people may be! But should you join, I'm on your side,...just not your boss's!

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05-04-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
Wow. I was just talking about this with a few people, recently.

Anyway, my opinion of the Military is that it is a much-needed line of defense if and when our country needs to be defended against an attacker. It's a logical defense mechanism in a violent world such as this.

I do, however, take issue with the men and women who serve in that military. Not on the whole, but on a personal level. I truly can't even begin to tell you how many arrogant, hot-headed, narcissistic, prideful and condescending servicmen I've encountered over the years. They condescend because I've, in their words, "not had the balls to go and fight overseas" (as though it were some requirement), and even when it comes down to the very definition of what a soldier is; they completely jump in my face about it. (Don't ever call a marine a soldier. Even if, by the very fucking definition of the word, it's what he is. His pride is much too large and much too sensitive, and he will react with hostility. But then, that's what he's been trained to do as a lumbering henchman of the US government. It's all he knows)

Someone recently told me that all of the atrocities which have been commited overseas like the burning of entire villages and the slaughter of innocent bystanders can be excused, because "in the end, they're just following orders". This is always the last-ditch effort by an enthused patriot with a massive red-white-and-blue boner protruding from their pants to defend their God-blessed servicemen. What they fail to understand is that "following orders" is just as bad as choosing to commit the atrocity itself. I have no respect for a man who blindly follows orders like some mindless, brainwashed drone when he's told to firebomb an entire town. What's more, he does so with actual joy as he screams "Fuck you, hadji!" from his helicopter and urges the enemy below (mainly consisting of innocent men, women and children) to "Burn, motherfuckers! BURN!" And somehow, I'm suppost to respect these men simply because they happen to be slaughtering in the name of my freedom?

No. Sorry. Firstly: if I wish to have my freedom defended, I will happily take up my own arms and do it myself. I sincerely mean that. The fact that our troops never let the enemy get close enough for me to do that doesn't mean I need to thank or respect them. They've simply taken on a job that I didn't ask them to take on, and then they get pissy when I'm not thankful. Secondly, I would respect them much, much more if they had the moral fortitude to think for themselves rather than "simply following orders".

Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that they do blindly follow orders to rape and kill and destroy. I'm quite sure they do, but I like to think that as they're being brainwashed in bootcamp; they're at least taught to use their best judgment while in the field. In fact, that seems likely. But if that's the case, then it certainly brings into question the sheer number of horrific things that take place during war. Things such as:





Of course, when faced with such things, the "no true scotsman fallacy" goes into full-swing and our more prideful servicemen and women start spouting off about how "that would never happen in the Marine corps! That's Army shit! Don't let a few bad eggs color your opinion of the whole military", blah blah fucking blah. I understand that "war is hell", and it turns men and women into the bloodthirsty animals they need to be to get the "job" done. After all, that "job" is the destruction of the "enemy". An enemy that can be anywhere at any time; waiting to kill you without warning. And while this is going on, you're rereading the letter from your wife for the hundredth time that says your neighbor has a bigger dick than you and that when you get home, she wont be there. I understand. Quite frankly, I would snap too. If I'm being honest, I'd probably do things while in the pits of hell that I wouldn't have done otherwise.

But that does not mean that I would even think of demanding respect when I got home. That would be the absolute height of narcissism. "I shot men simply because I couldn't risk letting them go. I bombed a house full of children because there was an Al Quaeda leader inside. I got restless one day from the letter my wife sent me and slowly pulled the legs off a camel spider just to feel some sense of control. Then, after all of the trauma and wear, yeah, I smiled when I watched the city burn. NOW RESPECT ME GOD DAMMIT! I AM A GOD!!!"

And that's not hyperbole, either. A hot-headed marine recently told me that he is a god. He was being sincere.

Ultimately, I have a problem with arrogance. I also have a serious problem with national pride. I don't personally understand national pride, but if some possess it, that's fine. What's not fine is when they attack me for not having the aformentioned red-white-and-blue boner like they do. And somehow, it makes me the asshole (who is inevitably told to "get out of this country") because I don't invest any measure of pride - something which must be earned - in what happens by pure chance to be my geographic location. I don't pledge my allegience to the flag or what it represents, because it's a country. It's a place I fucking live. If this place burned down, I'd pack up and go find another place. But I'll invest no pride in my country. Mainly because, as I said, it's just a geographic location. But also because I don't agree with or identify with the immense arrogance that my particular location - the US - seems to stand for. We live in excess, and we absolutely worship the men and women who happily kill and destroy so that we may continue to do so. And if someone like me doesn't agree with the general mindset - something which I'm supposed to be "free" to do; as per our military's efforts in the first place - I'm endlessly attacked and demonized as being "unamerican" and a "traitor". This seems especially true when I'm confronted with a member of our armed forces who all but outrightly tells me to my face that I should be sucking his dick for the work he's done. Sorry bub. My respect for you (I'm speaking generally; not to the OP) ends at the fact that you're just another human being, like me, who is worthy of politeness and courtesy. The fact that you happen to be a soldier...oh, hah, I'm terribly sorry, a Marine...does not warrent any extra respect or adoration on my part. And in fact, as I've said above, it brings up a few new issues for me.

My good buddy Dusty sums it up pretty nicely:




Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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05-04-2013, 08:43 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 08:13 AM by JAH.)
RE: Attitude towards the military?
In my front window is a sign that reads "October 1967 Stop the Draft Week Oakland, why has my country forced me to resist imperial wars all my adult life".

I have, with some limited exception, never condemned our military. I will continue until I die resist the use of our military by political cowards, some of the recent ones who shunned military service out of fear, the entire W coterie for example.

I do not know many americans who do not trust our military as a fighting force, I know many americans who feel that fighting force has been abused significantly by politicians. There is a difference between those who serve in the military and the uses that military has been put to. I am of the group which finds many of the uses of our military since 1945 as unnecessary and in general opposed to the will of and best interests of the public.

Do a little research on the reasons for the Korean, Vietnam, Iraqi and Afghanistan wars. Also look at the incursions into Granada, Panama, Haiti and others. None were directly related to protecting america, they were generally done to protect monied interests. An argument can be made that South Korea was protected from a crazy ruler as was done above. An argument can also be made that violent dictators in South Korea was the result.
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05-04-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
So long as the soldier who did what any of us would do in that particularly hellish situation isn't bound and determined to be an asshole, i.e. deMANding respect, I disagree! But I agree, also, if that makes any sense. I think the biggest problem with the military is we send boys to fight who are led by gungho 20 year olds trapped in Captain's bodies. 21 to buy beer, 25 (or better) to have to shoot someone to survive! Could you imagine sending someone as clueless as Justin Beiber into a warzone? What do you expect would come back? A true hunter/gatherer/predator, but still without any adult emotional development.

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05-04-2013, 08:57 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
I'm against america's bloated, imperialist military. It's a giant welfare program if you ask me. People don't join because of the honor and glory like in the old days, they join because its a paycheck. If the government actually brought some of these troops home, and put them to work on our infrastructure, which is crumbling, maybe then I'd have a more positive view.
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05-04-2013, 09:01 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
^^^ Our bases in Germany no longer have to provide the troops to defend all of Europe from the Soviet hordes!!! But they're still there.

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05-04-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
Misanthropik summed up my view pretty well. I don't understand what is heroic about killing other human beings for the sake of your government's interest. If that's what you end up doing for whatever reason, fine, but that doesn't make you a hero.

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05-04-2013, 09:40 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
(05-04-2013 12:31 PM)Misenhelter Wrote:  I'm a high school athlete with many scholarships for football. But I'd rather spend my 20 years in the military and then work civilian work, since football is just a game and doesn't really have that much of an impact on society as a whole.
I hope you know you don't have to spend 20 years in.

Don't let your recruiter bullshit you.No
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05-04-2013, 09:45 PM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
I've never really got the "for the troops,but against the war" thing,FWIW.Consider

My attitude is,I like and hate the military.
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06-04-2013, 04:34 AM
RE: Attitude towards the military?
The people's liberation army of China sacrificed many lives saving people in the great floods in 1998.

They sacrificed more lives saving people in the 7.9 (some say 8.2) earthquake in 2008.

Wherever there is a natural disaster in China, there is an order that the troops nearby should rush in and offer their best help

For this part, great respect for the Chinese PLA.

Want something? Then do something.
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