Attitudes towards education
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17-10-2012, 11:52 PM
RE: Attitudes towards education
That opening scene is pretty awesome, and I agree with it all up to the point where he reminisces about how great the past was.
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17-10-2012, 11:59 PM
RE: Attitudes towards education
(17-10-2012 08:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I used to agree with the notion that learning all of the unnecessary information to my major was pointless. Then I began to realize that while I viewed the physical sciences as more important, not all did. I prefer a science and math heavy curriculum personally, but others simply do not. For those individuals who want to go into business or art or any one of a number of professions, a basic education in the sciences is still something I think they need, and not something they would get if only pursuing classes related to their major. I hate art, but I took a class on film to fulfill that requirement and learned something about how to look at films differently. I walked away with a new appreciation for it, and that is the point of taking some sort of art class. History provides a context by which to understand what is happening today. Sure, some of it might seem irrelevant, but it has a huge impact on areas that may be unrelated to your future profession. For instance, learning about Rome helped me to understand how much of an impact it adopting a new religion would have on that religion (although some disagree on this forum, but that is because of a warped view that their religion is different than all other religions).

Here is the simple fact about all of the "time waster" classes like art and history, you take them to expand your basal knowledge. You take them because an education means educating yourself in all areas. They provide context for understanding different problems. The greatest discoveries all seem to come from people with different backgrounds than the field they make their ground-breaking discovery in (look at DNA). A different perspective is sometimes necessary.

Taking classes related only to your major is good and can be done in a few years, we call that a masters degree.

Except you aren't explaining the necessity for the physics major, or w/e, to take the art classes. This concept of the well rounded student is completely flawed, and based on nothing but tradition. Whats more you people have the audacity to force this tradition onto the children, and tell them its a liberal idea.

The fact of the matter is that the schools want you to waste 4 years to get a 2 year degree, so they make more money. Its all part of business! Just another instance of capitalism corrupting everything it touches.

Maybe if education was cheap, like in most civilized countries, then you MIGHT have a leg to stand on, but its not so you dont.
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18-10-2012, 12:21 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
I enjoyed so much getting my education, took my time and did it my way. I was 45 when I started, and I sought to satisfy my intellect. I recieved so much more than just a bachelors degree. I recieved the ability to continue my education on my own, and see the world and all it's content as a connected wonder.

I started out not liking history, but now I understand that history is what today is all about.

My education has given me the ability to be better company for myself and others.
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18-10-2012, 12:40 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
(18-10-2012 12:21 AM)depat Wrote:  I enjoyed so much getting my education, took my time and did it my way. I was 45 when I started, and I sought to satisfy my intellect. I recieved so much more than just a bachelors degree. I recieved the ability to continue my education on my own, and see the world and all it's content as a connected wonder.

I started out not liking history, but now I understand that history is what today is all about.

My education has given me the ability to be better company for myself and others.

Thats nice for you, but why force this on others in the off-shot it benefits them in some way?

I am not sure what you mean by "did it my way", unless you mean you did it their way and you agreed with it. Regardless, maybe some people want to do it their way as well. Currently, that option doesn't exist.
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18-10-2012, 01:09 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
Well I think before we can have a meaningful conversation, or debate or whatever we must define liberal. Often, nowadays people equate democrat to liberalism, but I do not consider democrats to be true liberals. Democrats tend to be more liberal on specific social issues, which is what people mean, but I consider myself to be a liberal by its true definition and tend to loathe a lot of the positions that are typically held by most democrats. I consider myself to be a classical liberal, like Frederic Bastiat. I do not think either of the two big parties are particularly liberal I would consider them to both me centrist. The reason why this is so important is that you claimed that Academia has always leaned liberal, but since the term has changed meaning Academia has changed as well, though the term has remained the same. I am a college student and I certainly think you have a point. I am not sure the reason behind it, and have wondered this myself. I think (from my likely biased opinion, but to what degree I do not know) that modern "liberals" like most folks learn about concepts but vote and politic after only scratching the surface. They do not research thoroughly. I am not saying all Democrats do this, but more than Republicans. This is only a biased guess, and I have also noticed most Atheists tend to do this as well so I am prepared for the retribution that is sure to follow.

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18-10-2012, 01:13 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
Diablo:

I never waisted a class and saw to it that no class was waisted on me. I enjoyed every bit of it, leaving nothing out.
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18-10-2012, 01:22 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
(18-10-2012 01:09 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Well I think before we can have a meaningful conversation, or debate or whatever we must define liberal. Often, nowadays people equate democrat to liberalism, but I do not consider democrats to be true liberals. Democrats tend to be more liberal on specific social issues, which is what people mean, but I consider myself to be a liberal by its true definition and tend to loathe a lot of the positions that are typically held by most democrats. I consider myself to be a classical liberal, like Frederic Bastiat. I do not think either of the two big parties are particularly liberal I would consider them to both me centrist. The reason why this is so important is that you claimed that Academia has always leaned liberal, but since the term has changed meaning Academia has changed as well, though the term has remained the same. I am a college student and I certainly think you have a point. I am not sure the reason behind it, and have wondered this myself. I think (from my likely biased opinion, but to what degree I do not know) that modern "liberals" like most folks learn about concepts but vote and politic after only scratching the surface. They do not research thoroughly. I am not saying all Democrats do this, but more than Republicans. This is only a biased guess, and I have also noticed most Atheists tend to do this as well so I am prepared for the retribution that is sure to follow.

Wait...you are claiming the republicans are the more educated demographic?
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18-10-2012, 06:36 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
I don't know about the US, but universities generally tend to offer a pool of general education requirements, so if history isn't your thing, you can take philosophy, or sociology, or something else in the humanities that strikes your fancy. Because being educated isn't just about knowing a whole lot about your chosen field. It's about culture and history and general knowledge. It's about knowing about the world around you, how it got to be where it is. It is about making more informed decisions. Studying health and sociology and history, even at low levels, in college, really helped me define my political and economic opinions today.

Because overspecialisation is for insects.

And I say this as an overspecialised PhD student myself.

Back to OP: I teach undergrads too. About 4 students showed up to my Monday lab. They asked no questions and left about 15 minutes early. I felt guilty for getting paid to teach these airheads.

I remember that the thing that irritated me the most as an undergrad was students who begged, haggled, and argued for extra marks. What irritated me even more was the professors and instructors who gave in. This is the grade you deserve, next time work harder and don't just photocopy my notes two days before the exams. Angry

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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18-10-2012, 08:32 AM
RE: Attitudes towards education
I only give points back if I mistakenly took them away in the first place, but I understand exactly what you are saying. I incorrectly entered a student's grade online as an 89 instead of a 79, when she saw her paper the next week, she tried to guilt trip me into giving her the higher grade. No dice.

My students just space out sometimes. I can understand that in a large lecture where the professor talks for an hour, but my lectures are usually 15 to 20 minutes. I mean seriously.

Diablo
Obviously you feel very strongly about this issue, but you are making an assumption about how I see the education system itself. I have no interest in doing because it is tradition and I am not convinced it has conveys any "liberal" message to the students. I don't want the business major devoid of science anymore than I want the physics major to forget about the humanities. That doesn't mean the physics major has to like it, but that individual can still take something away from those classes, they just have to be intelligent enough to see how to do so.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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18-10-2012, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2012 12:25 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Attitudes towards education
In my view, the ideas you are expressing, not including the "liberal factories" are contradictory, or at least they are working against each other.

...Or, actually, it might be better to say they seem to be part of the same problem.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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