Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
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02-08-2013, 06:44 PM
Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
So I've long dabbled in theological debate, and watched a number of them on youtube as well. One line of questioning has piqued my interest. Atheists know what would convince them that God is real. There is established criteria for which we could not deny the existence of God - his holy presence manifested in some unambiguous, obvious godly form, before a reasonable audience (easy thing to do if you, say, occupy the vast majority of the sky over the US, for example), performing any number of supernatural feats that defy the laws of physics. Maybe an upsidedown volcano in the sky that erupts and disappears before it touches anything. Maybe having it actually rain locusts globally, which turn into broccoli afterwards, etc. You know, supernatural business. Do something supernatural, and make it literally spectacular.

Or, shit, heal an amputee. But I digress.

Anyway, we have criteria which could convince us. Evidence could present itself. The possibility exists. We could be wrong. We'd have to accept it.

But do you have a similar set of circumstances, where it can be proven to you that God doesn't exist? Or at least that there's no reason to suspect that he does? What is it about our existence that demands that there is a god, which if you found a legitimate explanation for, you could let go? Would you be willing to accept that argument, if confronted with the evidence/reasoning/explanation?

Do you allow yourself the possibility that you are wrong? Do you have an out, or are you forever bound to the belief of religion, regardless of the evidence put forth against it?

If so, what would it be? What instance, or discovery, or scientific theory (much more than just conjecture - based on mounds of facts), would it take to free you from your faith? I hope you'll weigh in. I'm quite interested in the responses to this question. Thanks!

Religious but open minded about the arguments of atheists? You may have spent your whole life learning about the arguments for religion. May I present to you 10 segmented hours for the case against it?
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02-08-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
(02-08-2013 06:44 PM)Golbez Wrote:  So I've long dabbled in theological debate, and watched a number of them on youtube as well. One line of questioning has piqued my interest. Atheists know what would convince them that God is real. There is established criteria for which we could not deny the existence of God - his holy presence manifested in some unambiguous, obvious godly form, before a reasonable audience (easy thing to do if you, say, occupy the vast majority of the sky over the US, for example), performing any number of supernatural feats that defy the laws of physics. Maybe an upsidedown volcano in the sky that erupts and disappears before it touches anything. Maybe having it actually rain locusts globally, which turn into broccoli afterwards, etc. You know, supernatural business. Do something supernatural, and make it literally spectacular.

Or, shit, heal an amputee. But I digress.

Anyway, we have criteria which could convince us. Evidence could present itself. The possibility exists. We could be wrong. We'd have to accept it.

But do you have a similar set of circumstances, where it can be proven to you that God doesn't exist? Or at least that there's no reason to suspect that he does? What is it about our existence that demands that there is a god, which if you found a legitimate explanation for, you could let go? Would you be willing to accept that argument, if confronted with the evidence/reasoning/explanation?

Do you allow yourself the possibility that you are wrong? Do you have an out, or are you forever bound to the belief of religion, regardless of the evidence put forth against it?

If so, what would it be? What instance, or discovery, or scientific theory (much more than just conjecture - based on mounds of facts), would it take to free you from your faith? I hope you'll weigh in. I'm quite interested in the responses to this question. Thanks!

Nope. There is nothing. They would just say they have misunderstood Jebus, and his holy birdy.




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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02-08-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
I assume you're right for the majority of them. But I'm hoping I'm wrong. And I'd really like to hear from them if that's the case.

Religious but open minded about the arguments of atheists? You may have spent your whole life learning about the arguments for religion. May I present to you 10 segmented hours for the case against it?
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03-08-2013, 12:48 AM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
I'd guess that the majority just don't want to spend time thinking about it, any more than most people want to spend a lot of time, say, trying to figure out if the Colatz Conjecture is true. (Math geeks like me are insane outliers.) They just figure that what their parents told them is true and then get about things like paying the rent and picking up the kids.

Ignore WLC. He's also an insane outlier. Fortunately for me, in the other direction.

((Also, self-affirming spirit nonsense is easily refuted. But that's a tangent.))

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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03-08-2013, 01:20 AM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
I think if they prayed to god and got a bad horrible feeling, they'd change their minds.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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03-08-2013, 04:58 AM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
(02-08-2013 08:25 PM)Golbez Wrote:  And I'd really like to hear from them if that's the case.

Yeah, that's why you're posting on an atheist forum. Dodgy

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03-08-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
Empirical scientific evidence that proves that all attributions to the deity exist, along with direct and indirect observation of said entity.

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03-08-2013, 09:08 PM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
(03-08-2013 04:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Yeah, that's why you're posting on an atheist forum. Dodgy

Before I joined this forum, I've been a member at another atheist forum where there seemed to be plenty of religious/spiritual posts. I haven't frequented these forums enough to know whether the same was the case. But I didn't expect there'd be no religious people here.

Religious but open minded about the arguments of atheists? You may have spent your whole life learning about the arguments for religion. May I present to you 10 segmented hours for the case against it?
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04-08-2013, 07:07 AM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
(03-08-2013 09:08 PM)Golbez Wrote:  Before I joined this forum, I've been a member at another atheist forum where there seemed to be plenty of religious/spiritual posts. I haven't frequented these forums enough to know whether the same was the case. But I didn't expect there'd be no religious people here.

There are, they just don't tend last long because we refute their arguments. Drinking Beverage
With one real exception. Fucking Kingschosen...

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04-08-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Attn: theists. What would it take to prove you wrong?
(02-08-2013 08:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. There is nothing. They would just say they have misunderstood Jebus, and his holy birdy.




This guy explains the majority of the problem in one sentence: Theists are not seeking the truth, they are seeking a method to justify their beliefs. Their goal with "debates" is not to sift through the facts to find the best answer, their goal is to trapeze the sinkholes of logic to make it seem as if their stance is the correct one.

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

- Bertrand Russel
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