Attn: theword
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02-09-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 11:56 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 11:50 AM)theword Wrote:  Sorry, my posts are not showing up. I thought I pushed the wrong button.

You were missing the final "/quote" tags.

(02-09-2013 11:50 AM)theword Wrote:  BTW, I believe Bertrand Russell thought that the world was "just always here."

I have never seen a quote or citation even beginning to suggest he held such an opinion.

As an educated man he would have been well aware that the Earth (and the sun) cannot possibly have been "always here". This was conclusively established by the early 1800s.

You could correct me but I'm nearly certain this is false. The universe was thought to be static and unchanging (therefore eternal) before expansion was detected in the 20th century by Edwin Hubble. Russel lived from 1870's to 1970's, he would have been aware of Hubbles results in the last half of his life..

So no it was not conclusively established in 1800, but Bertrand would have known there was a beginning to the current state of the universe.

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02-09-2013, 03:34 PM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 02:47 PM)Adenosis Wrote:  You could correct me but I'm nearly certain this is false. The universe was thought to be static and unchanging (therefore eternal) before expansion was detected in the 20th century by Edwin Hubble. Russel lived from 1870's to 1970's, he would have been aware of Hubbles results in the last half of his life..

So no it was not conclusively established in 1800, but Bertrand would have known there was a beginning to the current state of the universe.

One must be careful to distinguish between the Earth and the Universe!

The Earth's geothermal energy shows that it is cooling; it was assumed (correctly) that it had coalesced from molten matter (and it cannot have been infinitely hot in the past, because even allowing for such temperatures it could not stay together). Therefore that happened at a finite time in the past, and it has been cooling since. Working backwards obtains a finite value for its age.

This was also corroborated by observable geological history - at the rates at which geological processes were known to occur, the Earth must have been millions of years old in order for there to be time enough for them to have occurred as observed.

Likewise the sun emits energy at a relatively constant rate; it consumes itself to do so and so cannot have done so forever without an infinite source (which is not possible). Nuclear fusion was unknown; it was assumed that the sun was emitting light due to its contraction under its own gravity. Therefore the Sun is shrinking and coalescing; therefore it has contracted into its present state from some uncondensed nebular base, and this must have happened at a finite distance in the past. Working backwards obtains a finite value for its age.

Both lines of reasoning are correct but lacking in much detail that has been discovered since. They give age figures (if extrapolated) that are much, much too low, actually.

One of the first to make such calculations was lord Kelvin in the mid 1800s, but the principles were already known.

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02-09-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 02:37 PM)theword Wrote:  OK, I will answer the questions
1. Question: why do people disagree?
Answer- because people are individuals and have different opinions.

That is utterly tautological. Do you realise this?

(02-09-2013 02:37 PM)theword Wrote:  2. You do not think the differences in doctrine matter. Okay. Other people think think the differences in doctrine do matter.
The question is why?
Answer: I can only answer about my beliefs, not someone else. As I told you before, they must like those doctrines.

I have told you before, being a Christian is a relationship with God. People have different ways of expressing themselves, different views, likes, dislikes, and so on.
I really don't know what more I can tell you, and why my opinion matters anyway.

Many people do not "like" the theological conclusions they come to. But that is not really the point. I was asking why you believe the specific things you do. If you literally can't answer, well, then that's just that. I was merely curious.

Usually I assume there're reasons for people to believe what they believe.

The only reason you've given for why other people believe as they do is that they like those doctrines. I therefore conclude that you believe as you do because you like your own doctrine.

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02-09-2013, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2013 09:04 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 12:23 PM)theword Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 12:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Would the following accurately characterize your views?
Anyone believes in and follows Jesus is a Christian, and they cannot be said to be more or less correct than each other.

That's a perfectly fine interpretation.

Why is that your interpretation?

After all, there are many millions of people who both believe in Jesus and do not agree with you.
Again, you categorize, analyze, and evaluate. Jesus Christ came to this earth, claimed to be God, was crucified, died, buried, and rose from the dead.
This is essential Christianity. These are the building blocks for salvation- anyone who believed this and calls to Jesus as his/her savior will be saved.
You can debate about Hail Mary's, and all that other stuff all day- more power to you.

Sorry. Wrong on EVERY point. Jebus never "claimed to be (a) god". Some people later (actually MUCH later), made that claim about him. Hebrews thought Yahweh was the ONLY god, (well at least in Jebus' day .. and he had many "sons", and long before that they had many gods, and Yahweh had a wife). "Divine" did not mean then, what it means today. "Divine" to Hebrews meant "other than natural". ((See the incident (in Judges), when the Witch of Endor conjures the shade of Samuel for King Saul)). The "divinity" of Jebus is DIFFERENT in each gospel, (but you wouldn't know that as you are very uneducated with respect to most everything, including your religion.) What "rose from the dead' means, also meant different things to different people, including Christians. The original Gospel of Mark, had no resurrection, only an empty tomb. Why is that ? Many well-respected Christian scholars do not think it means he actually rose *physically* from the dead, (including Dr. John Dominic Crossan, and Dr. B.B. Scott ... seminary professors). You can't even prove Jebus ever existed. If he existed, he never once preached "salvation". You can't find ANYWHERE in the gospels that talks about that crap. "Salvation" to a Jew, is meaningless, and would have been to those in his day also. St. Paul made up that shit. Why is it, Christians know NOTHING about their own cult, and atheists know more about their bullshit than they do ?

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02-09-2013, 04:37 PM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 03:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 12:23 PM)theword Wrote:  Again, you categorize, analyze, and evaluate. Jesus Christ came to this earth, claimed to be God, was crucified, died, buried, and rose from the dead.
This is essential Christianity. These are the building blocks for salvation- anyone who believed this and calls to Jesus as his/her savior will be saved.
You can debate about Hail Mary's, and all that other stuff all day- more power to you.

Sorry. Wrong on EVERY point. Jebus never "claimed to be (a) god". Some people later (actually MUCH later), made that claim about him. Hebrews thought Yahweh was the ONLY god, (well at least in Jebus' day .. and he had many "sons", and long before that they had many gods, and Yahweh had a wife). "Divine" did not mean then, what it means today. "Divine" to Hebrews meant "other than natural". ((See the incident (in Judges), when the Witch of Endor conjures the shade of Samuel for King Saul)). The "divinity" of Jebus is DIFFERENT in each gospel, (but you wouldn't know that as you are very uneducated with respect to most everything, including your religion.) What "rose from the dead' means, also meant different things to different people, including Christians. The original Gospel of Mark, had no resurrection, only an empty tomb. Why is that ? Many well-respected Christian scholars do not think it means he actually rose *physically* from the dead, (including Dr. John Dominic Crossan, and Dr. B.B. Scott ... seminary professors). You can't even prove Jebus ever existed. If he existed, he never once preached "salvation". You can't find ANYWHERE in the gospels that talk about that crap. "Salvation" to a Jew, is meaningless, and would have been to those in his day also. St. Paul made up that shit. Why is it, Christians know NOTHING about their own cult, and atheists know more about their bullshit than they do ?
Bucky Boy, great to hear from you. I have to get a copy of the Bible you have, because it is clearly different than the one I read. You are hilarious, a complete buffoon. That's why the Jews crucified Jesus, for blasphemy, because he claimed to be God. Jesus said he was "the way, the truth, and the life, that no man get to Heaven but through Him." The Gospels are different because they portray Jesus in a different light in each book. Jesus resurrected, His followers, who were eyewitnesses wrote about it. This certainly proves He lived. Even the worst critics admit Jesus lived. I can go on and on, but the dinner you are cooking for your boyfriend is probably getting cold. Hugs.....
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02-09-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 04:37 PM)theword Wrote:  Bucky Boy, great to hear from you. I have to get a copy of the Bible you have, because it is clearly different than the one I read. You are hilarious, a complete buffoon. That's why the Jews crucified Jesus, for blasphemy, because he claimed to be God. Jesus said he was "the way, the truth, and the life, that no man get to Heaven but through Him." The Gospels are different because they portray Jesus in a different light in each book. Jesus resurrected, His followers, who were eyewitnesses wrote about it. This certainly proves He lived. Even the worst critics admit Jesus lived. I can go on and on, but the dinner you are cooking for your boyfriend is probably getting cold. Hugs.....

Personal insults against Bucky aren't particularly relevant.

If he's wrong you should be able to provide Biblical references to demonstrate it.

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02-09-2013, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2013 10:10 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 04:37 PM)theword Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 03:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Sorry. Wrong on EVERY point. Jebus never "claimed to be (a) god". Some people later (actually MUCH later), made that claim about him. Hebrews thought Yahweh was the ONLY god, (well at least in Jebus' day .. and he had many "sons", and long before that they had many gods, and Yahweh had a wife). "Divine" did not mean then, what it means today. "Divine" to Hebrews meant "other than natural". ((See the incident (in Judges), when the Witch of Endor conjures the shade of Samuel for King Saul)). The "divinity" of Jebus is DIFFERENT in each gospel, (but you wouldn't know that as you are very uneducated with respect to most everything, including your religion.) What "rose from the dead' means, also meant different things to different people, including Christians. The original Gospel of Mark, had no resurrection, only an empty tomb. Why is that ? Many well-respected Christian scholars do not think it means he actually rose *physically* from the dead, (including Dr. John Dominic Crossan, and Dr. B.B. Scott ... seminary professors). You can't even prove Jebus ever existed. If he existed, he never once preached "salvation". You can't find ANYWHERE in the gospels that talk about that crap. "Salvation" to a Jew, is meaningless, and would have been to those in his day also. St. Paul made up that shit. Why is it, Christians know NOTHING about their own cult, and atheists know more about their bullshit than they do ?
Bucky Boy, great to hear from you. I have to get a copy of the Bible you have, because it is clearly different than the one I read. You are hilarious, a complete buffoon. That's why the Jews crucified Jesus, for blasphemy, because he claimed to be God. Jesus said he was "the way, the truth, and the life, that no man get to Heaven but through Him." The Gospels are different because they portray Jesus in a different light in each book. Jesus resurrected, His followers, who were eyewitnesses wrote about it. This certainly proves He lived. Even the worst critics admit Jesus lived. I can go on and on, but the dinner you are cooking for your boyfriend is probably getting cold. Hugs.....

Is that the respect your Jebus taught you to have for others ? Did you never read about the Samaritan ? Didn't your Jebus teach his disciples to respect those that were different from them. Every time, you are disrespectful. Would your Jebus like that ? YOU are one claiming to be his follower. Not me.

1. The ROMANS crucified Jebus, (if he existed). Not the Jews. It was Passover weekend. NO Jew EVER was involved in a trial and crucifixion of anyone on Passover weekend. The trial was a fable. The Sanhedrin was never called into session on Passover weekend. The gospels are just wrong about that. The Jews (supposedly) went to the Romans and claimed he said he was "the king of the Jews", NOT THAT HE WAS A GOD. No bible says they crucified him for claiming to be a god. Not one. Apparently you never read your Babble. Provide the quote. Chapter and verse, to back up your claim.

Many ancient gods claimed they were "the way, the truth and the life". In fact we know where they got the quote from. Hint : it's Egyptian.
2. The gospels were not written by eyewitnesses. No scholar disputes that. Just proves you actually know nothing about your cult. There is NOTHING written about him by anyone who was an eyewitness. If you can find one, you will be the first in human history. Many critics think he never existed. You can't prove he did. You can't "go on and on" because in fact, you know nothing about your cult, and can't even begin to argue intelligently about the subject. You know as little about religion, and history, as you do about science. Given that, the question is, "what are you doing here" ? You're not gonna convert anyone. And you certainly aren't going to teach anyone anything. So what are you doing here ?

Keeps your hugs to yourself. Or are you a creepy/slimy predator ?

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-09-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 01:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  These Christians do not believe in the divinity of Jesus:
  • Unitarian Universalist Christians

Some UU Christians do.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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03-09-2013, 02:23 AM
RE: Attn: theword
Why the Gospels Are Myth: The Evidence of Genre and Content - Dr. Richard Carrier




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03-09-2013, 03:29 AM
RE: Attn: theword
(02-09-2013 11:34 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Formatting's broken on theword's post (missing close quote tag). I fixed it. Couldn't help adding a couple comments.

(16-08-2013 10:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Question #1
Are you a Christian?
(02-09-2013 11:11 AM)theword Wrote:  That's a very broad term these days. I am a traditional Christian who believes in the deity of Jesus and that He lived, died, and rose again.

(16-08-2013 10:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Question #2
If so, are you a Young Earth Creationist?
(02-09-2013 11:11 AM)theword Wrote:  To me it is irrelevant when the earth was created. We weren't there when it happened, it doesn't really matter when it happened, and contrary to many of you- we don't have the scientific methods or measures to accurately determine exactly when the earth was created. One question atheists cannot answer is how the earth was created, most think that the earth was just "always here".

No scientifically inclined person has ever said that the earth was just "always here".

(16-08-2013 10:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Question #3
If you are a Christian, do you believe all denominations "have it right" and are "saved"? This includes Mormons.
(02-09-2013 11:11 AM)theword Wrote:  This is probably one of your trick questions, because you know myself, as well as the general public do not trust atheists. It is also a trick that atheists use to trap people in answering "then why are there so many denominations."
First. let me say that atheism is a denomination. You may disagree, but it is true. Here is a link to an atheist church. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08...32911.html
Secondly, and this will answer q's 5 and 6.
Jesus did not come to the world to build a religion. He did not come to build a physical "church" with pews and bells and all that.
Jesus wants people to believe in Him and follow Him.
It is laughable how you atheists categorize Christians and take quotes in the Bible out of context. You are lost, you don't care, and that's your problem!
You may see Mormons in Heaven, you may see Baptists, Catholics, maybe even Muslim. You see, this is another area where you people are lost. Being a member of a denomination does not give you a ticket to Heaven. Jesus never said it and neither does the Bible.

KC is a Christian.

Having meetings is not sufficient criteria to be a church.

(16-08-2013 10:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Question #7
Would you ever consider following Joseph Smith's teachings and believing them as truth - ie on the same parallel as the Bible?
(02-09-2013 11:11 AM)theword Wrote:  No. Joseph Smith was a man. He was shot while escaping jail. Some may believe him, it's their choice.
Let me add another distrust of atheists, because they always try to box and close and have something up their sleeve when asking questions.
Joseph Smith was a man, he died and you can see his grave. I believe Jesus rose from the dead- that's my prerogative. You atheists do not, that is your prerogative. You can do the research yourself- it's a matter of belief, some do, some don't.

KC is a Christian.

I think you did more than fix it.

I think you wrote the whole thing.

Those seem like parodying answers to me.

Good comedy though. I'm impressed.

Bowing

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