Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
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19-07-2017, 03:46 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(18-07-2017 10:47 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:00 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  [Image: crocodile-tears-1200x800.jpg]

Dodgy

My reply was a visual: crocodile tears.
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19-07-2017, 04:11 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 03:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Why is it that small-government NRA types shrug when the government kills people? They're largely for the death-penalty, and given the non-response to police killings, don't even seem to mind it carried out in the absence of a conviction. Puzzling.

Well the real answer is....because they're only for small government when they don't like it. But yeah, I've never understood where the police and military cheerleader angle came from for the "conservative" wing. For people that claim to be so small government they sure do like to worship those huge government organizations. For people that bitch so much about the government, they sure are quick to go with the "If you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. Go ahead, search my car, search my house, I'll bend over and take it!"

It's mind boggling how inconsistent it is.
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19-07-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 03:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Why is it that small-government NRA types shrug when the government kills people? They're largely for the death-penalty, and given the non-response to police killings, don't even seem to mind it carried out in the absence of a conviction. Puzzling.

I was waiting for a statement of some sort about the guy who was killed after telling the cop he was "carrying" (and did everything correct) and had his wife and kids in the car.

They've aligned themselves so deeply with the police that I guess they couldn't make a coherent statement. They really should have been all over that shit.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-07-2017, 04:59 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
I guarantee you they would have made a statement if Castile was white.

As for the statement by the lawyers that it was reasonable to fear an ambush, they are going to back themselves into a position they can't wiggle out of. That statement implies the cops can shoot anyone who approaches then because they fear an ambush. I can't believe they want to go there.

Finally, I have no particular loyalty to OBL but reading this thread I think a) he reacted to exactly what was posted and b) didn't say anything close to what people threw back at him. That was a pretty fucked up trail of posts.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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19-07-2017, 06:32 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 04:40 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(19-07-2017 03:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Why is it that small-government NRA types shrug when the government kills people? They're largely for the death-penalty, and given the non-response to police killings, don't even seem to mind it carried out in the absence of a conviction. Puzzling.

I was waiting for a statement of some sort about the guy who was killed after telling the cop he was "carrying" (and did everything correct) and had his wife and kids in the car.

They've aligned themselves so deeply with the police that I guess they couldn't make a coherent statement. They really should have been all over that shit.

That was the incident that brought this train of thought up in my head, yeah. He did everything legally, fulfilled his requirements, and was still killed.

Yet the "we need guns to protect us from the Gubmint" NRA didn't say a damned thing. Was it because he wasn't a dues-paying member? Was it because he wasn't an older white guy? Was it because that "Big Gubmint" argument is just a smokescreen? It didn't seem like he was trying to kill the cop.

I don't know and can't say. If there are any members here who are also members of the NRA, I'll be happy to listen to their thoughts on the matter. I will in advance confess skepticism of the organization's motives, but if a member of the NRA can explain a little about this, I'm all ears.
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19-07-2017, 06:37 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 04:59 PM)BnW Wrote:  Finally, I have no particular loyalty to OBL but reading this thread I think a) he reacted to exactly what was posted and b) didn't say anything close to what people threw back at him. That was a pretty fucked up trail of posts.

He missed a big point in Tomilay's post, to wit, that the latter would prefer seeing no one dying in such encounters. He reacted to exactly part of what was posted -- but in the trimming he lost quite a bit of the message.

Coincidentally, that part allowed him mount a soapbox and beat his breast. I ain't buying it, and you shouldn't, either.
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19-07-2017, 07:05 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
I don't want to have an argument on someone else's behalf, so this will be my last word on it: I read the comment about it being better for a cop to lose their life vs. an innocent person exactly the way OBL did, and I had the same visceral reaction. My interpretation of that comment was that the cops should always refrain from shooting because given the two choices, it's better that they die than they risk taking the life of an innocent. I'm not sure what else could have been meant by the comment. And, I don't buy the "well, I don't want anyone to die" argument because that's a tautology and was not at all what was being talked about.

Sorry, what I'm not buying is the mental gymnastics that came afterward. I have no dog in any of the fights or animosity that exists between different posters. Tomorrow OBL may post something I completely disagree with. I'm pretty sure he and I have very different views on guns. But, in this instance, I think he nailed the point.

I'm just as happy to let it go, but I thought the comments at him were unfair and not based on what he actually said or responded to.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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19-07-2017, 07:32 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 07:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  I don't want to have an argument on someone else's behalf, so this will be my last word on it: I read the comment about it being better for a cop to lose their life vs. an innocent person exactly the way OBL did, and I had the same visceral reaction. My interpretation of that comment was that the cops should always refrain from shooting because given the two choices, it's better that they die than they risk taking the life of an innocent. I'm not sure what else could have been meant by the comment. And, I don't buy the "well, I don't want anyone to die" argument because that's a tautology and was not at all what was being talked about.

Sorry, what I'm not buying is the mental gymnastics that came afterward. I have no dog in any of the fights or animosity that exists between different posters. Tomorrow OBL may post something I completely disagree with. I'm pretty sure he and I have very different views on guns. But, in this instance, I think he nailed the point.

I'm just as happy to let it go, but I thought the comments at him were unfair and not based on what he actually said or responded to.

It's better if no one dies. It shouldn't take mental gymnastics to understand that. And the cops should not always refrain from shooting. But they should be more cautious about it. In the process they would heighten the risk to themselves, while reducing the risk of shooting an innocent party. While there are shootings that can be demonstrably justified, the fear for life justification is just too non-specific and easy to abuse.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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19-07-2017, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2017 07:40 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 07:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm just as happy to let it go, but I thought the comments at him were unfair and not based on what he actually said or responded to.

I'm comfortable with the fact that we disagree. I think it's a matter of personal emphasis -- what we each choose to emphasize in the reading -- but I find OLB's omission glaring. I think that when you're handed a gun as part of your duty, responsibility comes with the package, and I'm disturbed at the number of police officers in America citing fear as a reason for pulling a trigger. (I'm even more disturbed at the number of Americans willing to give them a pass for it.)


I think it fair to point out OLB's eliding what I consider a crucial point in the post to which he replied. By ignoring that part, he was indeed strawmanning; he was ignoring the part he agreed with because he couldn't strike it down. I too would rather see no one on-scene die, but if on-scene there is an issue, I would prefer to see a police officer practice caution rather than fear.

I'm not trying to have a go at you and hope you don't take this reply in any way other than how it was meant, which is, simply an expression of personal opinion and not opprobrium.
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19-07-2017, 07:41 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
I didn't take anything personal, we're fine. I'm pretty thick skinned. And, I agree with the premise that cops need to shoot less. I've said from the outset there should be an indictment here. It us unfathomable to me why this poor woman was shot.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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