Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-07-2017, 12:17 AM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 07:41 PM)BnW Wrote:  It us unfathomable to me why this poor woman was shot.

Target practice Dodgy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
20-07-2017, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2017 09:02 AM by ResidentEvilFan.)
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 04:59 PM)BnW Wrote:  Finally, I have no particular loyalty to OBL but reading this thread I think a) he reacted to exactly what was posted and b) didn't say anything close to what people threw back at him. That was a pretty fucked up trail of posts.

And I think he did his usual "flip the fuck out" routine when anything regarding a cop shooting like this happens. If that's how you saw the exchange, fine, but you're clearly ignoring a lot of shit he said and how he acted.

And you can call it mental gymnastics but I completely disagree. As I said, I understood the point immediately and frankly, it's really not that hard to figure out. OBL didn't nail a fucking thing, unless freaking the fuck out like Alex Jones is "nailing it". Even if you agree with him, there's no way you can excuse him responding like a rage filled asshole like he did.

Every time one of these discussions happen, he reacts like this. Every. Goddamn. Time.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like ResidentEvilFan's post
20-07-2017, 09:09 AM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 07:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  I don't want to have an argument on someone else's behalf, so this will be my last word on it: I read the comment about it being better for a cop to lose their life vs. an innocent person exactly the way OBL did, and I had the same visceral reaction. My interpretation of that comment was that the cops should always refrain from shooting because given the two choices, it's better that they die than they risk taking the life of an innocent. I'm not sure what else could have been meant by the comment. And, I don't buy the "well, I don't want anyone to die" argument because that's a tautology and was not at all what was being talked about.

Sorry, what I'm not buying is the mental gymnastics that came afterward. I have no dog in any of the fights or animosity that exists between different posters. Tomorrow OBL may post something I completely disagree with. I'm pretty sure he and I have very different views on guns. But, in this instance, I think he nailed the point.

I'm just as happy to let it go, but I thought the comments at him were unfair and not based on what he actually said or responded to.

What I'm finding hilarious about your post is, you're claiming OBL "nailed it" and then saying everyone on the "other side" is using mental gymnastics. But if you go back and look at the exact line OBL responded to and his response and you can tell me with a straight face that OBL did NOT use a shit ton of assumption, interpretation, and knee jerk reaction then I'm going to have to say you have a very strange way of determining what is mental gymnastics and what isn't.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ResidentEvilFan's post
20-07-2017, 11:51 AM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(19-07-2017 07:32 PM)tomilay Wrote:  It's better if no one dies. It shouldn't take mental gymnastics to understand that. And the cops should not always refrain from shooting. But they should be more cautious about it. In the process they would heighten the risk to themselves, while reducing the risk of shooting an innocent party. While there are shootings that can be demonstrably justified,

Unless they're going into a situation in which shots have already been fired, lethal force should be the very last resort. Cops have multiple non-lethal options available to them: nightsticks; CS or mace; tasers. Hell, it this situation if they felt threatened they could have punched the gas and put some distance between themselves and the imaginary threat.

Keeping lethal force as the last resort does, indeed, raise the risk to the cop in some situations. But risk is part of the job. They know that when they sign up, and if they don't know it, somebody needs to explain it to them in no uncertain terms before they're allowed to sign up.

Quote:the fear for life justification is just too non-specific and easy to abuse.
Indeed.

"Hey, I've got a peanut allergy, and the guy was eating a peanut butter sandwich.
So I shot him."

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Dr H's post
20-07-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(20-07-2017 11:51 AM)Dr H Wrote:  Unless they're going into a situation in which shots have already been fired, lethal force should be the very last resort...

Agree totally. And presuming that Justine Damond was standing near to and opposite the open driver's side window, why was a Taser not utilised by the driver—particularly if both officers were, as alleged, fearful for their lives?

Why did officer Noor—who was in the distant passenger seat fire his weapon instead, and in advance of the driver, who was closest to Damond and would logically be more fearful due to his closer proximity to Damond? None of this scenario makes any sense.

And the issue of the bodycams has yet to be clarified. Minneapolis Police Department regulations require that cameras are to be turned on for a range of situations, including "any contact involving criminal activity" and "before the use of force". Did both officers not turn their cameras on deliberately, and if so why? Or has the Minneapolis Police Department simply deleted the relevant footages in an attempt to avoid the inevitable shit storm?

[Image: 8718422-3x4-340x453.jpg]
Officer Mohamed Noor - Obviously Disguising
His Fear of Possible Killer Citizens

Ms Damond's death is being investigated by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, not the Minneapolis Police Department. Officer Noor and his partner are on paid "administrative" leave.

Uh... now they're being paid for not doing their job? WTF? Angry

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-07-2017, 01:33 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(20-07-2017 12:37 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(20-07-2017 11:51 AM)Dr H Wrote:  Unless they're going into a situation in which shots have already been fired, lethal force should be the very last resort...

Agree totally. And presuming that Justine Damond was standing near to and opposite the open driver's side window, why was a Taser not utilised by the driver—particularly if both officers were, as alleged, fearful for their lives?

Why did officer Noor—who was in the distant passenger seat fire his weapon instead, and in advance of the driver, who was closest to Damond and would logically be more fearful due to his closer proximity to Damond? None of this scenario makes any sense.

And the issue of the bodycams has yet to be clarified. Minneapolis Police Department regulations require that cameras are to be turned on for a range of situations, including "any contact involving criminal activity" and "before the use of force". Did both officers not turn their cameras on deliberately, and if so why? Or has the Minneapolis Police Department simply deleted the relevant footages in an attempt to avoid the inevitable shit storm?

[Image: 8718422-3x4-340x453.jpg]
Officer Mohamed Noor - Obviously Disguising
His Fear of Possible Killer Citizens

Ms Damond's death is being investigated by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, not the Minneapolis Police Department. Officer Noor and his partner are on paid "administrative" leave.

Uh... now they're being paid for not doing their job? WTF? Angry

Body cameras create issues along with resolving them. Do you have them on all the time? If so, what happens with sexual assault victims that want their identity protected? What about confidential informants? What about witnesses in areas with high gang/drug activity who have a very vested interest in anonymity. I'm sure there are other instances where they may hurt more than help. The police union also has a say in how/when they are used. Fixing the police in the US is quite complicated and I'm not sure the majority of the public really cares (it's those people that are involved or it's a super rare instance of someone like me or some such nonsense).

I suppose the city could delete the footage but if that was discovered... Since the shooting will not be investigated by the department involved it is harder for them to control the outcome and if they are caught tampering with evidence they cannot depend on the other agency sweeping it under the rug. Where I live the DA's office and State Police investigate every officer involved shooting. These people while generous in shielding officers are not likely to surrender their careers, pensions and freedom to protect a wayward cop.

Officers involved in situations like this are put on paid leave until the investigation shows if the action/shooting was justified. No police union is going to allow unpaid leave until an action is deemed criminal or at the very least beyond the scope of duty/regulations.

Hopefully this will be far enough beyond the pale and will cause reform but I wouldn't hold my breathe. Drinking Beverage

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-07-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(20-07-2017 12:37 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Officer Noor and his partner are on paid "administrative" leave.

Uh... now they're being paid for not doing their job? WTF? Angry

Nah, that's standard. If they're found not guilty then they've lost out while this case took their time and meant that they couldn't earn. Basic civilised societal thing, to assume innocent until proven otherwise, and put them on paid administrative leave.

I'm also a little bit anti this publishing of his picture too much. His family have to live with the consequences of his action. Again, he's not proven guilty yet, or at least the formalities haven't been finalised. It seems like a minor quibble I guess, but it does grate me.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
20-07-2017, 01:51 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
Pretty much every square inch of where I work is covered by cameras. Privacy is considered to be protected because management does not generally review the footage unless there is a specific reason to do so (for any use of force, they review everything from a half hour before to a half hour after), and it is not accessible to the public by default. Though I suppose sometimes shit gets leaked out, like the Carlos Larmond beating video that went viral.

Even overseas we generally had at least one person per fire team with a battle cam on, both for accountability and for review of battlefield tactics.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes yakherder's post
20-07-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Nemo.

“I am not responsible for actions of the imaginary version of me you have inside your head.” - John Scalzi

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Norm Deplume's post
20-07-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Australian Woman Killed By Police in Minnesota
(20-07-2017 01:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm also a little bit anti this publishing of his picture too much. His family have to live with the consequences of his action. Again, he's not proven guilty yet, or at least the formalities haven't been finalised. It seems like a minor quibble I guess, but it does grate me.

It's not just his picture. There is stuff out there about a lawsuit, complaints against him, etc. None of that is relevant. Of course, the flip side is that's how non-cops get treated, too. What would be best if all that stuff remained out of the public forum, but it's public information so not much you can do.

And, his partner, near as I can tell, didn't do anything. He was just sitting in the car when his partner seemed to go insane. I guess because there was a shooting he has to be out while they figure it all out, but it seems he really got the short end.

The whole situation is just awful. For everyone. I doubt the shooter was thinking "I'm going to kill someone today". Somehow he panicked and fired. I still think there needs to be criminal ramifications for it, including jail time, but I doubt he's evil or a sociopath. Maybe he is, but the more likely explanation is this was a tragic mistake.

These guys don't seem to be adequately trained for the jobs they have and the situations they can find themselves in. I get sometimes you will shoot and be mistake but there are far, far too many instances where they just seem to start shooting and kill an innocent person for absolutely no valid reason. And, there is almost never any consequences.

Btw, anyone see the story about the cop in Baltimore who's body camera recorded him planting drugs? Whoopsie.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like BnW's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: