Austria implements "burqa ban"
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07-10-2017, 08:14 AM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
In point of fact, their law is not a 'burka ban'.

"The new law states that faces must be visible from hairline to chin in public places and includes off-slope ski masks and surgical masks outside of hospitals."

Maybe Muslims are the target, maybe not, maybe partly. Or their presence was the impetus for this law. I don't know - do you?

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07-10-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
(07-10-2017 08:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  In point of fact, their law is not a 'burka ban'.

"The new law states that faces must be visible from hairline to chin in public places and includes off-slope ski masks and surgical masks outside of hospitals."

Maybe Muslims are the target, maybe not, maybe partly. Or their presence was the impetus for this law. I don't know - do you?

Per the article linked in the OP:
Quote:While the rule applies to some non-religious facial coverings, it is mostly perceived to be directed at the extremely modest clothes worn by a minority of Muslim women.

Quote:Other measures that came into force Sunday include immigrants signing an "integration contract" and compulsory courses in the German language and "values".

Quote:Some Muslim groups in Austria have criticised the ban. Carla Amina Bhagajati of the Islamic Religious Community in Austria said the “handful” of fully veiled women she knows of in Vienna “now are criminalized and... restricted to their homes.”

There's no mention of it being for security purposes.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-10-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
To quote podcaster Noah Lugeons: "Fuck you, and your magic hat!"

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07-10-2017, 08:50 AM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
Quote:Chas Wrote:
In point of fact, their law is not a 'burka ban'.

From the UK Independent, Thursday 18 May, 2017, 13:22 BST...

"Austria’s parliament has approved a burqa ban that will see women wearing full-face veils in public fined €150 (£130) as part of new integration policies... The prohibition will come into effect in October to outlaw Islamic burqas, niqabs and other clothing obstructing facial features in public places, universities, courts or on transport... The partial prohibition, which has not yet come into effect, will apply to the niqab and burqa but not headscarves (hijabs), which cover the hair and neck only."

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07-10-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
(07-10-2017 08:14 AM)Chas Wrote:  Maybe Muslims are the target, maybe not, maybe partly. Or their presence was the impetus for this law. I don't know - do you?

I do, since I'm living at ground zero, so to speak. And I know the parties and politicians involved. The couldn't do a muslim ban, since that would have been unconstitutional, so they went for the wholesale solution.

That however catches a whole bunch of fish in the net. Such as the street musicians, whose pictures I posted earlier. They call themselves the Horse Mask musicians and it's their trademark. Turns out, not anymore.

But knowing the forces involved, the goal is twofold. Discriminating a little bit more against muslims and further chipping away on the rights to protest in the streets. They already did a lot to criminalize protestors. Establishing ban miles, making the organisators of protests culpable if someone does property damage during the protests they organized.

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07-10-2017, 11:42 AM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
(07-10-2017 04:09 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Dickhead.

Piss flap.

Get your own bleeding hymn book
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07-10-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
(07-10-2017 08:50 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
Quote:Chas Wrote:
In point of fact, their law is not a 'burka ban'.

From the UK Independent, Thursday 18 May, 2017, 13:22 BST...

"Austria’s parliament has approved a burqa ban that will see women wearing full-face veils in public fined €150 (£130) as part of new integration policies... The prohibition will come into effect in October to outlaw Islamic burqas, niqabs and other clothing obstructing facial features in public places, universities, courts or on transport... The partial prohibition, which has not yet come into effect, will apply to the niqab and burqa but not headscarves (hijabs), which cover the hair and neck only."

A UK newspaper is hardly the arbiter of what the law is, call it what they want.

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07-10-2017, 02:25 PM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
(07-10-2017 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 03:16 AM)Thedemonbarber Wrote:  Fair enough... My point all along has been the same point.

Nowhere have I said that the burqa is a security risk, or it should be banned because I don't like it, for me it's about integration...And that point is valid.

I'm going to step out at this point and agree to differ.

OK so run past me how the burqa ban is gonna help with integration. I think it will have the precise opposite effect, because it will alienate Muslims and encourage the far right.

What's the reasoning that says banning a religious garment is gonna make Muslims integrate with Austrian society better?

As I see it this is a transparently deliberate attempt by politicians to capitalise on anti-Muslim sentiment and cause *division*, not integration.

Okay, let's leave aside the women who are forced to wear the burqa by their families/husbands.(these women should be protected) but I will come back to that.

Let's concentrate on the women who 'choose' to wear it.
How easy does wearing this garment make it for Muslim women to integrate? Not very I would say.
Can you tell me....
How many conversations have you held with one of these women?
How many are in the workplace? How many do you see mixing freely with western women or men? How many are members of clubs or societies? etc etc

I have worked with two Muslim ladies in the past, both of whom wore the head scarf, both these women were teachers, both had liberal viewpoints. I think the women who wear the burqa by choice must not give much thought to the women who are forced, and therefore are less liberal maybe?

I don't know what motives are behind the Austrian governments decision, but from the integration, and womens rights standpoint I agree with it. If women are being held back from successfully integrating by families/husbands then this needs to be clamped down on, and if some are putting up barriers for whatever reason, then this needs looking at too.

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07-10-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
(07-10-2017 02:25 PM)Thedemonbarber Wrote:  
(07-10-2017 07:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  OK so run past me how the burqa ban is gonna help with integration. I think it will have the precise opposite effect, because it will alienate Muslims and encourage the far right.

What's the reasoning that says banning a religious garment is gonna make Muslims integrate with Austrian society better?

As I see it this is a transparently deliberate attempt by politicians to capitalise on anti-Muslim sentiment and cause *division*, not integration.

Okay, let's leave aside the women who are forced to wear the burqa by their families/husbands.(these women should be protected) but I will come back to that.

Let's concentrate on the women who 'choose' to wear it.
How easy does wearing this garment make it for Muslim women to integrate? Not very I would say.
Can you tell me....
How many conversations have you held with one of these women?
How many are in the workplace? How many do you see mixing freely with western women or men? How many are members of clubs or societies? etc etc

I have worked with two Muslim ladies in the past, both of whom wore the head scarf, both these women were teachers, both had liberal viewpoints. I think the women who wear the burqa by choice must not give much thought to the women who are forced, and therefore are less liberal maybe?

I don't know what motives are behind the Austrian governments decision, but from the integration, and womens rights standpoint I agree with it. If women are being held back from successfully integrating by families/husbands then this needs to be clamped down on, and if some are putting up barriers for whatever reason, then this needs looking at too.

So even though these women do choose to wear it, you are happy to *enforce* that they should not, in the name of integration? Why not say everyone should wear a Mao suit? As i asked before, why are you so happy to choose *for* those women, and not let them choose for themselves? Frankly maybe I don't want to be integrated with a bunch of clowns who despise my culture. Maybe I want to celebrate my heritage? Why should some politicians get to decide these things for me?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-10-2017, 02:34 PM
RE: Austria implements "burqa ban"
And I have had close Muslim friends in the past - not so much now. Although none of them wore face coverings. I fail to see how that's relevant though. Respect for others customs is possible without having to know them personally.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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