BENGHAZI!!!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-10-2015, 10:35 PM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(22-10-2015 09:48 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 09:45 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Murdering civilians whenever the fuck they felt like it?

What are they? Cop wannabes?

Easy to believe that bullshit when you've only seen one experienced one side of the story.

There was a trial and convictions from what I can find googling - doesn't sound like bullshit to me.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-10-2015, 01:56 AM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(22-10-2015 09:48 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 09:45 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Murdering civilians whenever the fuck they felt like it?

What are they? Cop wannabes?

Easy to believe that bullshit when you've only seen one experienced one side of the story.

Nobody doubts that most of the members of Blackwater were selected from among the best, most highly-trained ex-mil available. The problem, as has been pointed out, is in how they were employed by their employers... that is, us.

You can't say "they" went rogue, only that some members of the organization went rogue, and it's unfair to paint any group en masse like that for the behavior of some. The most I will say is that the leadership of Blackwater should have been more aware of the possibility that the mercs would be an easy scapegoat for the USA when we asked too much of them, and it resulted in stepping over the line.

If you want to learn about the sort of small-group psychology that led to abuses like those of Blackwater and Abu Ghraib, read the book The Lucifer Effect by Phillip Zimbardo, the psychologist who conducted the famous Stanford Prison Experiment, and who testified as an expert witness at the trial of the Abu Ghraib soldiers. It will help a lot to see how this sort of thing happens, and why; understanding changed my attitude toward these soldiers/mercs' behavior from anger to pity.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RocketSurgeon76's post
23-10-2015, 05:57 AM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
First off -- I despise Hillary Clinton. I find her to be one of the most offensive politicians I've ever seen. That's my opinion. Don't like it? Fuck you, too bad.....


BUT....


WTF is wrong with these people???

The Chief of Station - Ambassador Chris Stevens TURNED DOWN the offer of more security. TWICE. It was his call - and as it turned out it was a bad one.

How the hell does that make Clinton responsible????

Answer -- she wasn't.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes onlinebiker's post
23-10-2015, 06:39 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2015 06:48 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(23-10-2015 05:57 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  First off -- I despise Hillary Clinton. I find her to be one of the most offensive politicians I've ever seen. That's my opinion. Don't like it? Fuck you, too bad.....


BUT....


WTF is wrong with these people???

The Chief of Station - Ambassador Chris Stevens TURNED DOWN the offer of more security. TWICE. It was his call - and as it turned out it was a bad one.

How the hell does that make Clinton responsible????

Answer -- she wasn't.

Isn't that like 3 year old info? You can find the documents online. I know the house website has quite a few documents asking for more security. According to this document, Ambassador Stevens requested 13 additional security people in July. In the article I read, the state department denied the request for the additional security, however they couldn't prove that it was Hillary who denied the request or someone under her.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interact...-security/

Mr. Westmoreland, during Hillary's testimony yesterday noted that there were over 20 requests for additional security. Hillary testified that she was friends with Ambassador Stevens, and he was like "well, if he knew you so well, after 20 attempts for more security, why didn't he just call you directly?" Then it was brought up that he didn't have her email or phone number in his directory.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-10-2015, 06:53 AM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2015 07:03 AM by yakherder.)
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(22-10-2015 10:35 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-10-2015 09:48 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Easy to believe that bullshit when you've only seen one experienced one side of the story.

There was a trial and convictions from what I can find googling - doesn't sound like bullshit to me.

A Blackwater convoy was ordered to block an intersection in preparation for the arrival of different convoy containing someone whose protection they were responsible for. They anticipated a possible ambush at that intersection, and wanted it secured. Once there, a vehicle, for reasons unknown, did not stop as directed and instead continued towards the convoy. As directed by their rules of engagement, they fired into the engine block and then, when that didn't work, they targeted the driver. If the situation had stopped there, it probably would have been deemed justified even when it later became apparent that the car wasn't a VBIED, the driver was just an idiot. The problem was that while Iraqi police officers began running to the aid of the vehicle's occupants while unknown shooters of unknown allegiance, most likely those who intended to set up the originally predicted ambush, began firing on the convoy, adding confusion to an already fucked up situation. Mistaking the police officer as a combatant trying to get to what at the time was still a suspected VBIED (not an unreasonable assumption given the known high level of corruption and the fact that they had about two seconds to make their decision as they started to receive legitimate enemy fire from other, unknown sources), they kept firing. The rest was more or less a chain reaction of confusion and each side not knowing the intentions of the other. The convoy was convinced it had come under full scale ambush, and the Iraqi police and civilians were convinced the convoy had suddenly gone rogue and started massacring people.

Yes, there was a trial and convictions. Whether I agree with the outcome or not, I accept it. It was, however, for failing to follow the defined rules of engagement in a specific tragic scenario, not for "murdering civilians whenever the fuck they felt like it." That's a bullshit accusation to make, albeit a common one, and I'm going to call it out as bullshit whenever I hear it, because I can't honestly say I wouldn't have done the same thing in their situation without the benefit of hindsight bias after the fact.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes yakherder's post
23-10-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(23-10-2015 05:57 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  How the hell does that make Clinton responsible????

Answer -- she wasn't.

I haven't jumped on that bandwagon. My main issue is the rampant hypocrisy. I can't help but throw up in my mouth a little when I watch Hillary acting all distraught that people would dare use a situation like this to further a political agenda when she regularly does the same thing.

The situation with Blackwater came to mind because I know if it hadn't been for the witch hunt, Blackwater in all likelihood would have been in charge of the security at Benghazi, and I don't believe they would have failed, even if they had naive ambassadors seemingly working against their own interests. That was, in fact, why the government continued to use them well after it had began trying to criminalize them. It knew damn well that nobody else even came close to having the same success record when it came to protecting important people in the midst of impossibly hostile situations.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-10-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
This hearing was nothing more than Kabuki theater. Hillary is a lying, stealing, incompetent hypocrite. The fact that the republicans couldn't do any damage to her speaks volumes of their own incompetence. I honestly think the biggest blame regarding Benghazi to her is her false flag description of the movie as the motivation for the attack. Hardly the first time a politician has lied to mold public opinion.

The email scandal will take her down if it is allowed to progress as it should. Too bad there is not a reasonable candidate from either party to give me any sort of confidence in the next four years. And just to be clear, I think she would be a disaster as president, just as much as Trump would.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-10-2015, 04:39 PM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(23-10-2015 01:56 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Nobody doubts that most of the members of Blackwater were selected from among the best, most highly-trained ex-mil available. The problem, as has been pointed out, is in how they were employed by their employers... that is, us.

You can't say "they" went rogue, only that some members of the organization went rogue, and it's unfair to paint any group en masse like that for the behavior of some.

I wasn't referring to the mercs going rogue. I was talking about the organization going rogue by defrauding and overbilling the Government for millions of dollars.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-10-2015, 05:30 PM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
I'm not a fan of Clinton and I wouldn't vote for her at gun point. That said, the implications by various people all over that, somehow, she's the most vile of politicians and has blazed new trails into hypocrisy and politicking is ridiculous. She's smarmier than many, but she is not, by a long shot, the most despicable politician this country has ever seen. And yet, even Tricky Dick doesn't get the same level of vitriol that Clinton seems to get. I suspect a lot of that is because she doesn't have a dick. A guy doing the shit she does is just business as usual in politics. But, have a woman do it and there is this added level of outrage for some reason.

As for Benghazi, the 12 or whatever hours they spent on this yesterday were a complete and total joke. The accusations coming out that this is nothing but political theater for the sole purpose of trying to discredit her are obviously accurate. This is the 8th investigation into this and they are asking the exact same questions. This isn't about getting to any truth. It's about making sure that voters don't forget - period. And, it's having the opposite impact. I read that her fund raising has gotten a big boost of this. It's damn near impossible to turn her into a sympathetic figure but, somehow, the Republicans are managing to do that. When you get to a point when people start to feel sorry for Hillary Clinton and give more money to her, you've lost. It's over. Let it go already.

And, the real tragedy here is that there is probably an actual scandal here and no one is talking about it or asking about it. No one. "What scandal are you talking abou, BnW?". Well, I'm glad you asked!

The embassy in Benghazi wasn't there for diplomatic reasons. It's been well, well established that the State Department presence in that facility was minimal. I believe that came up again yesterday (and I've not seen one press account where anyone batted a fucking eye over that). It was set up for the CIA and they were allegedly doing several things out of that location. Seymour Hersh (yes, that guy again) reported a few times over the year that the facility in Benghazi was being used to hold potential suspects and question them and run Libyan weapons into Syria to overthrow the Assad government. Former general and then CIA director David Petraeus (this is before he was forced to resign over boinking a journalist) allegedly ran the whole thing for the Obama administration (Petraeus denies this, btw). And, if you're wondering if taking weapons from the arsenal from a government you helped over throw and funneling those weapons to rebels trying overthrow a government you consider to be hostile to your interest is legal, let me end the suspense. It's not. It's not even a little bit legal.

That the CIA was doing this was not, and generally is still not, known to the American people. But, it's a good bet the local loons in Libya knew about it. That, goes the accusation, is why the Benghazi complex was targeted. It was a CIA stronghold and they were running operations out of it. It wasn't over a video. It wasn't a riot. It was an attack to stop the CIA operation.

There have been several reports on this over the past few years. What there has not been, not even once, is an official line of questioning on this topic. We've had 7 investigations on this and we are well into the 8th. And, not one Republican (or Democrat for that matter) is asking any questions at all about the CIA allegations.

Why do you suppose that is? I've got my own theories, to be honest.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like BnW's post
23-10-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: BENGHAZI!!!
(23-10-2015 05:30 PM)BnW Wrote:  That the CIA was doing this was not, and generally is still not, known to the American people. But, it's a good bet the local loons in Libya knew about it. That, goes the accusation, is why the Benghazi complex was targeted. It was a CIA stronghold and they were running operations out of it. It wasn't over a video. It wasn't a riot. It was an attack to stop the CIA operation.

That describes like all of our embassies.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: