Bad Human Inherent Behavior
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08-05-2015, 10:24 PM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
I would imagine survival until ability would be a factor in very poor nations. However, in wealthy nations, this would not, in my opinion, be factor. In some of the wealthiest nations, the ethnicity is very diverse. This is only my opinion, as I am far from an expert in sociology and genetics.

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08-05-2015, 10:33 PM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
(08-05-2015 08:31 PM)Timj Wrote:  Humans are no longer required to compete with each other for survival.

Yes. Yes we are.

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09-05-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
I think we have already moved beyond natural evolution, we have started gaining control of our genetic traits to the point we can select which traits are desirable.

Genetic diseases will be the first thing that will be eliminated, then we'll move on to improving traits such as intelligence, penis size, etc. Laugh out load

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09-05-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
No humans are not inherently bad. Most humans are non violent and empathetic. What causes conflict in humans is their failure to understand evolution itself. We evolved to form groups, that will never change. The problem is when we do, we don't understand it all amounts to resources and ability to produce offspring. Our ideas in forms of political parties, religions and nationalities and even race, are labels we surround ourselves with. It does have a real affect of creating that safety and access to resources, the downside is that it pits us against each other.

Evolution has always produced both cruelty and compassion, force and cooperation, and unfortunately evolution does not care which wins because it is a process, not a human itself. The word "evolution" merely describes our observations of how life behaves.

Now having said that it isn't all doom and gloom. The only thing one might argue is that we don't have enough humans who understand that. Ideas are what cause conflict because humans evolved to compete. But the compassion still is in all of us. It is why there are both hospitals and prisons in all countries. It is why any parent would want to kill you or literally kill you if you fucked with their kid.

No we are not bad as a species, our lack of understanding of how our perceptions can fool us and pit us against each other, yes, that is a problem. And no, there are not enough people in the world who have working understanding of nature.

An easy way to know humans are not bad is to put unrelated toddlers without any input from parents into a room and they will form their own groups and once they get to know each other, they are less likely to get violent and most wont.

Humans don't learn hate until until an adult sells it to them. Humans don't learn religions or superstitions unless an adult sells it to them.

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09-05-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
(09-05-2015 08:26 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  then we'll move on to improving traits such as intelligence, penis size, etc. Laugh out load

My guess is that the demand will be in the reverse order, especially if we get to the point where we can manipulate genetics in adults.

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09-05-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
(08-05-2015 08:13 PM)Timj Wrote:  Growing up as a Humanist, I was taught the concept of humans being neither inherently bad or good. Throughout my short time on Earth, I am starting to think humans are indeed inherently bad, violent animals, with no hope of a good future. Chimpanzees, our close relative, is regarded as a very violent animal with members of its own species, very similar to humans. While another primate, the bonobo, is a very pacifist like animal. I have read articles claiming each species evolved on separate sides of the Congo River. Chimpanzees evolved on the side with low availability of resources, and the bonobo on the side with abundant resources. Hence, the violence and non-sharing attitude of chimps v the altruism and compassion of the bonobos.

Except that altruistic behaviours in chimps are actually well documented.
http://www.livescience.com/15451-chimps-...ruism.html

(08-05-2015 08:13 PM)Timj Wrote:  I would imagine humans developed our aggressive behavior in the same manner. My question is as follows: Has evolution ill - equipped humans for long term survival?

Had humans been ill-equipped for prolonged survival I would argue that we would not have become arguably one of the most successful species alive.

(08-05-2015 08:13 PM)Timj Wrote:  If so, has the halting of natural selection in humans ...

I'm going to stop that right there, as so many others have done already: Humans are still very much under the works of natural selection. Simply because we are for a considerable part no longer subject to daily predation risk, it does not mean we are no longer subject to selection. It's just largely determined by social rather than survival pressures now instead.

(08-05-2015 08:13 PM)Timj Wrote:  ...doomed our ability to develop a truly altruistic society, which will ultimately cause our species to go extinct?

Odds are, our extinction will be due to climate change or some other catastrophic event, not what you see as our non-altruism.

(08-05-2015 08:13 PM)Timj Wrote:  If humans have evolved with the strong altruistic traits of the bonobo primate, would we have become as intelligent and advanced as we are now? Is violence a requirement for the development of high intelligence in animals? I welcome any opinions.

Okay, first off, what do you mean 'If humans had evolved with strong altruistic traits'?
Humans are actually very altruistic, to the point that there is even some debate in the world of biological science as to whether humans should bereclassified as a eusocial species.

To answer your intelligence question, I doubt we'd be as able as we are today had we not evolved in a rather hostile environment where the capacity of team work and tools were not as vital a set of traits.

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09-05-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
Humans do have altruistic traits, as does chimpanzees, however, bonobos handle disputes in a very different manner. It amazes me when I think of the many ingenious ways of killing each other humans have devised. Much of our advanced technology comes from war. If antimatter could be developed in significant qualities, the first thing we would do, would make a weapon. (I think this may have already been considered by a military in the past). I think we have a much better chance of destroying each other by war. Hell, we came close to setting our species back by thousands of years during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I can only imagine how dire things will be when, (not if), we develop weapons that are more energetic then fission or fusion bombs. I have a much more bleak outlook for our species.

Evolution through social pressure is very interesting, I will research this more. I am curious in what ways this will change us in the future. I agree genetic mutation will be our next step, along with technology.
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09-05-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
(09-05-2015 08:26 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think we have already moved beyond natural evolution, we have started gaining control of our genetic traits to the point we can select which traits are desirable.

There is a growing population of individuals without wisdom teeth. More and more people in areas of Africa have evolved a natural immunity to AIDS. If you think humanity is passed natural evolution, you are mistaken. To think such a thing is to think we have control. I can assure you that we do not.

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09-05-2015, 12:44 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2015 12:55 PM by Timj.)
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
I am curious what kind of advantage of loosing wisdom teeth would give humans to the ability to pass the genes to offspring. Maybe infections at a young age, resulting in death within countries with no access to oral surgery. The most interesting thing I have read in regards to our most recent evolution, is our decreased brain size. I wonder if we was once smarter than we are now, or if our brains work more efficiently now. I have read somewhere that our brain size has reached a limit due to the size of the pelvis. Unless it is favored (which it is) and becomes larger.
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09-05-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: Bad Human Inherent Behavior
(09-05-2015 10:28 AM)Timj Wrote:  I can only imagine how dire things will be when, (not if), we develop weapons that are more energetic then fission or fusion bombs. I have a much more bleak outlook for our species.

That is irrational. Humans were well aware of the horrific effects of atomic power, and so far avoided them, after WWII. Generalizing from that to something "more dire" just because it might be available, in light of the fact that humans did not use (much) atomic power, is not reasonable.

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