Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
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20-08-2014, 10:01 PM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
(20-08-2014 10:00 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Anyone have any idea how many signatures the petition got?

115

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-08-2014, 05:33 AM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
(20-08-2014 10:01 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 10:00 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Anyone have any idea how many signatures the petition got?

115

116. Drinking Beverage

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21-08-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
Huh? Hasn't the Supreme Court already outlawed teaching creationism in science classrooms for failing to meet a secular standard? I could have sworn I read a ruling for that.

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21-08-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
(21-08-2014 12:01 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Huh? Hasn't the Supreme Court already outlawed teaching creationism in science classrooms for failing to meet a secular standard? I could have sworn I read a ruling for that.

Yes, so the proponents changed the name from Creationism to Intelligent Design to circumvent the ruling and when ID is ruled unconstitutional they will change the name to something else while changing none of what it actually teaches.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-08-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
"Teach both sides of the controversy, give equal footing to both sides, and let the children decide. Fair is fair!"
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25-08-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
(25-08-2014 05:55 PM)TheBear Wrote:  "Teach both sides of the controversy, give equal footing to both sides, and let the children decide. Fair is fair!"

You never heard them saying that when it was illegal to teach evolution.

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26-08-2014, 09:09 PM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
I'll play devils advocate for this argument.

I'm actually OK with creationism being taught in public schools, BUT with strict caveats.

1) Creationism, and by extension religion in general, can NOT be taught in the science classroom.
2) Creationism and religious study must be a purely electorate course and students/parents/teachers are not allowed to coerce students to attend.
3) Creationism as a class cannot count as a credit towards the minimum required to graduate.
4) Creationism as a class cannot be combined with any other school subject.
5) Creationism class and religious teachings within said class must be heavily regulated and screened for hate rhetoric.

On paper and in principle, I would be OK with religion and creationism being taught in schools under these restrictions, however this rarely comports with the reality. The reality is that devious teachers and school employees of various positions break the rules already in place regarding religion in the classroom. I would like to think that religious teachings in school will play nice and follow the rules, but as we've seen so many times, when we give them an inch they take a mile.
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27-08-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
(26-08-2014 09:09 PM)jojorumbles Wrote:  I'll play devils advocate for this argument.

I'm actually OK with creationism being taught in public schools, BUT with strict caveats.

1) Creationism, and by extension religion in general, can NOT be taught in the science classroom.
2) Creationism and religious study must be a purely electorate course and students/parents/teachers are not allowed to coerce students to attend.
3) Creationism as a class cannot count as a credit towards the minimum required to graduate.
4) Creationism as a class cannot be combined with any other school subject.
5) Creationism class and religious teachings within said class must be heavily regulated and screened for hate rhetoric.

On paper and in principle, I would be OK with religion and creationism being taught in schools under these restrictions, however this rarely comports with the reality. The reality is that devious teachers and school employees of various positions break the rules already in place regarding religion in the classroom. I would like to think that religious teachings in school will play nice and follow the rules, but as we've seen so many times, when we give them an inch they take a mile.

The only problem is that the people who are reasonable enough to concede to these stipulations are fine with keeping religion in church. The ones that are pushing to have their myth taught as fact would never concede to these restrictions; they might pretend to at first to get it started, but they'll just see it as a wedge to get the rest of their bullshit into public schools.

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27-08-2014, 12:30 AM
RE: Ban Creationism is Public Schools!
(21-08-2014 12:25 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 12:01 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Huh? Hasn't the Supreme Court already outlawed teaching creationism in science classrooms for failing to meet a secular standard? I could have sworn I read a ruling for that.

Yes, so the proponents changed the name from Creationism to Intelligent Design to circumvent the ruling and when ID is ruled unconstitutional they will change the name to something else while changing none of what it actually teaches.

Here is a PBS NOVA documentary on the Dover v. Board of Education, the 2004 federal trial in Pennsylvania that banned the teaching of ID in schools, exposing it as the 'creationism in lab coats' that it always was.




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