Baptism for the Dead
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22-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Baptism for the Dead
So I've mentioned before that I grew up Mormon. This is the most interesting- ( still completely bat shit crazy, but interesting ) thing about the religion to me.

So in order to explain the actual baptism of the dead I have to explain how mormons feel about the afterlife.

Mormons believe in different degrees of heaven. For example, If I'm reallly really good I'll go to the top level of heaven. However if I swear, smoke cigarettes or generally don't obey their doctrines than I may go to the 2nd degree. Well.. um.. here is a definition of the levels and who goes there as told by wiki Smile

Quote:Celestial Kingdom The celestial kingdom is the highest of three heavens or heavenly kingdoms. It is thought to be the "third heaven" referred to by the Apostle Paul in the King James Version of 2 Corinthians 12:2 and it is said by Latter-day Saints to correspond to the "celestial bodies" and "glory of the sun" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:40-41.

InhabitantsThe celestial kingdom will be the residence of those who have been righteous, accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ, and made and lived up to all of the required ordinances and covenants during their mortal lives.[3] It will also be the residence of those individuals that accepted and received the ordinances and covenants in the post-mortal spirit world.[4] All children who die before the age of eight automatically inherit the celestial kingdom.[5] The celestial kingdom will also be the permanent residence of God the Father and Jesus Christ.[6]
[/i]

Quote:Terrestrial kingdom
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the terrestrial kingdom is the middle of what are believed to be three heavens or heavenly kingdoms. It is said by Latter-day Saints to correspond to the "bodies terrestrial" and "glory of the moon" mentioned by the Apostle Paul in the King James Version translation of 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 15:40-41. The word terrestrial derives from a Latin word meaning "earthly".

According to the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the terrestrial kingdom is the eternal destination in the afterlife to which some portion of humankind will be assigned following resurrection and the judgment day. The primary source of this doctrine is a vision recounted by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, February 16, 1832, and recorded as Doctrine and Covenants Section 76.

Inhabitants
According to Doctrine and Covenants section 76, those who will inhabit the terrestrial kingdom include those who lived respectably but "were blinded by the craftiness of men" and thus rejected the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ when it was presented to them during their mortal lives.[16] It also includes persons who rejected the "testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it" in the spirit world[17] and those who "are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" after having received it.[18]Ultimately, the kingdom of glory (either the celestial or the terrestrial) received by those who accept the testimony of Jesus will be based on God's knowledge of whether they "would have received it with all their hearts" as manifested by their works and the "desire of their hearts".[19]

Those who inherit the terrestrial kingdom "receive of the presence of the Son, but not the fulness of the Father."[20]

Quote:Telestial kingdom
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the telestial kingdom is the lowest of what are believed to be three heavens or heavenly kingdoms. It is said by Latter-day Saints to correspond to the "glory of the stars" mentioned by the Apostle Paul in the King James Version translation of 1 Corinthians 15:41. There are no known uses of the word prior to Joseph Smith's prophecies.

Inhabitants
According to the LDS scripture, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76, those who will inhabit the telestial kingdom include those "who received not the gospel of Christ, nor the testimony of Jesus."[22] It also includes "liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie."[23] Because of their refusal to accept Jesus as their Savior, these individuals will remain in Spirit prison[24] for 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ.[25] After the 1000 years, the individuals will be resurrected and receive an immortal physical body and be assigned to the telestial kingdom.[26]

Joseph Smith taught that individuals in the telestial kingdom will be servants of God, but "where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end";[27] however, they will receive the ministration of the Holy Ghost and beings from the terrestrial kingdom.[28] Despite these limitations, in LDS theology being resident in the telestial kingdom is not an unpleasant experience: "the glory of the telestial ... surpasses all understanding".[29]

Joseph Smith also taught that just as there are different degrees of glory within the celestial kingdom (D&C 131:1-4), there are different degrees of glory within the telestial kingdom. He stated that "as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in the telestial world."[30] Each person's glory will vary depending on their works while on the earth.[31]

Smith and Rigdon stated "we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore".[32] One Latter-day Saint commentator has suggested that by implication this means that "most of the adult people who have lived from the day of Adam to the present time will go to the telestial kingdom."[33]

They still believe in a hell of fire and gods wrath and all that fun stuff.. but that is reserved for the real fuck ups.. you know murderers and the such.

There is a place inbetween the 3 degrees of heaven and hell -- I'm gonna call it limbo-- there is a correct word for it.. but I'm already getting quite wordy here.. Smile
So limbo is where people who died before the religion was "made up" go when they die. These souls and the souls of people on the planet today who die but have not had the opportunity to learn about the church and accept Jesus just float around in limbo untill.. DUH DUH DUH

Mormons look them up and baptise themselves IN THE NAME of these people.
As pre-teens we would go to what I would call field trips, to the temple, where our sunday school classes would go as groups and each of us would be baptised about 10-15 times in a row for random people whose names had been turned into the church. We had to get special passes to get into the temple to do this as we weren't the age for "temple recommends" ( your good person card to get you in ) yet. That whole experience is a whole thread worthy really haha.. The showers and clothing we would have to wear. Anyways, this is why Mormons are so obsessed with Geneology. They believe it is their responsiblity to baptise the whole world.. dead or alive. In order for them to have the chance to move on to heaven.. In which I actually think these people are still limited to the 2nd or 3rd heaven -- regardless of how good of people they were in life. To me this has always been wild!

Also, side note on the diff levels of heaven. You must be "sealed" in the temple to your loved ones to find each other in heaven. And you are only guaranteed to see the loved ones who go to your ( and are sealed to you) .. So the goal, of course, is for everyone to live all of the codes as close as possible so you will be reunited in the Celestial Kingdom. Hence why mormons live such strict livestyles.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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22-02-2012, 12:04 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
Yeah I've never understood the three levels. If I were raised mormon I'd have been as lazy about it as possible. They whine to me, I just say who cares what I do? I know where I'm going.

It's just ridiculous to believe you have no way of not going to heaven so you'll live your life to get a mansion there.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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22-02-2012, 01:44 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
(22-02-2012 12:04 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Yeah I've never understood the three levels. If I were raised mormon I'd have been as lazy about it as possible. They whine to me, I just say who cares what I do? I know where I'm going.

It's just ridiculous to believe you have no way of not going to heaven so you'll live your life to get a mansion there.

Well you really only want to go to the Celestial Kingdom or you'll never meet god! ( or be your own god in the future )

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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22-02-2012, 06:08 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
I always invite the Mormon "elders" (19 year old kids) in when they come knocking.
I have a great deal of fun with them. I act like I'm interested in the story and ask questions. Then I change gears to "That sounds a little hard to believe. Do you really believe this?" (...and they do). Eventually they get that I'm jerking them around and very politely excuse themselves.

I find them extremely polite and sincere and committed to their beliefs, which are as you said, “Completely Bat Shit Crazy”.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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22-02-2012, 10:25 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
Two things from me:

Quote:Spirit prison

Do you think there are dementors? Smile

Quote:They believe it is their responsiblity to baptise the whole world.. dead or alive.

The mormons are out to drown the world!



But here's an interesting theological question: Can someone baptize Hitler into heaven, or is he disqualified because the limbo cutoff was a time cutoff vs. a "hearing the gospel" cutoff?
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22-02-2012, 10:31 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
(22-02-2012 11:56 AM)k37713 Wrote:  So I've mentioned before that I grew up Mormon. This is the most interesting- ( still completely bat shit crazy, but interesting ) thing about the religion to me.

So in order to explain the actual baptism of the dead I have to explain how mormons feel about the afterlife.

Mormons believe in different degrees of heaven. For example, If I'm reallly really good I'll go to the top level of heaven. However if I swear, smoke cigarettes or generally don't obey their doctrines than I may go to the 2nd degree. Well.. um.. here is a definition of the levels and who goes there as told by wiki Smile

Quote:Celestial Kingdom The celestial kingdom is the highest of three heavens or heavenly kingdoms. It is thought to be the "third heaven" referred to by the Apostle Paul in the King James Version of 2 Corinthians 12:2 and it is said by Latter-day Saints to correspond to the "celestial bodies" and "glory of the sun" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:40-41.

InhabitantsThe celestial kingdom will be the residence of those who have been righteous, accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ, and made and lived up to all of the required ordinances and covenants during their mortal lives.[3] It will also be the residence of those individuals that accepted and received the ordinances and covenants in the post-mortal spirit world.[4] All children who die before the age of eight automatically inherit the celestial kingdom.[5] The celestial kingdom will also be the permanent residence of God the Father and Jesus Christ.[6]
[/i]

Quote:Terrestrial kingdom
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the terrestrial kingdom is the middle of what are believed to be three heavens or heavenly kingdoms. It is said by Latter-day Saints to correspond to the "bodies terrestrial" and "glory of the moon" mentioned by the Apostle Paul in the King James Version translation of 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 15:40-41. The word terrestrial derives from a Latin word meaning "earthly".

According to the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the terrestrial kingdom is the eternal destination in the afterlife to which some portion of humankind will be assigned following resurrection and the judgment day. The primary source of this doctrine is a vision recounted by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, February 16, 1832, and recorded as Doctrine and Covenants Section 76.

Inhabitants
According to Doctrine and Covenants section 76, those who will inhabit the terrestrial kingdom include those who lived respectably but "were blinded by the craftiness of men" and thus rejected the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ when it was presented to them during their mortal lives.[16] It also includes persons who rejected the "testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it" in the spirit world[17] and those who "are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" after having received it.[18]Ultimately, the kingdom of glory (either the celestial or the terrestrial) received by those who accept the testimony of Jesus will be based on God's knowledge of whether they "would have received it with all their hearts" as manifested by their works and the "desire of their hearts".[19]

Those who inherit the terrestrial kingdom "receive of the presence of the Son, but not the fulness of the Father."[20]

Quote:Telestial kingdom
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the telestial kingdom is the lowest of what are believed to be three heavens or heavenly kingdoms. It is said by Latter-day Saints to correspond to the "glory of the stars" mentioned by the Apostle Paul in the King James Version translation of 1 Corinthians 15:41. There are no known uses of the word prior to Joseph Smith's prophecies.

Inhabitants
According to the LDS scripture, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76, those who will inhabit the telestial kingdom include those "who received not the gospel of Christ, nor the testimony of Jesus."[22] It also includes "liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie."[23] Because of their refusal to accept Jesus as their Savior, these individuals will remain in Spirit prison[24] for 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ.[25] After the 1000 years, the individuals will be resurrected and receive an immortal physical body and be assigned to the telestial kingdom.[26]

Joseph Smith taught that individuals in the telestial kingdom will be servants of God, but "where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end";[27] however, they will receive the ministration of the Holy Ghost and beings from the terrestrial kingdom.[28] Despite these limitations, in LDS theology being resident in the telestial kingdom is not an unpleasant experience: "the glory of the telestial ... surpasses all understanding".[29]

Joseph Smith also taught that just as there are different degrees of glory within the celestial kingdom (D&C 131:1-4), there are different degrees of glory within the telestial kingdom. He stated that "as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in the telestial world."[30] Each person's glory will vary depending on their works while on the earth.[31]

Smith and Rigdon stated "we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore".[32] One Latter-day Saint commentator has suggested that by implication this means that "most of the adult people who have lived from the day of Adam to the present time will go to the telestial kingdom."[33]

They still believe in a hell of fire and gods wrath and all that fun stuff.. but that is reserved for the real fuck ups.. you know murderers and the such.

There is a place inbetween the 3 degrees of heaven and hell -- I'm gonna call it limbo-- there is a correct word for it.. but I'm already getting quite wordy here.. Smile
So limbo is where people who died before the religion was "made up" go when they die. These souls and the souls of people on the planet today who die but have not had the opportunity to learn about the church and accept Jesus just float around in limbo untill.. DUH DUH DUH

Mormons look them up and baptise themselves IN THE NAME of these people.
As pre-teens we would go to what I would call field trips, to the temple, where our sunday school classes would go as groups and each of us would be baptised about 10-15 times in a row for random people whose names had been turned into the church. We had to get special passes to get into the temple to do this as we weren't the age for "temple recommends" ( your good person card to get you in ) yet. That whole experience is a whole thread worthy really haha.. The showers and clothing we would have to wear. Anyways, this is why Mormons are so obsessed with Geneology. They believe it is their responsiblity to baptise the whole world.. dead or alive. In order for them to have the chance to move on to heaven.. In which I actually think these people are still limited to the 2nd or 3rd heaven -- regardless of how good of people they were in life. To me this has always been wild!

Also, side note on the diff levels of heaven. You must be "sealed" in the temple to your loved ones to find each other in heaven. And you are only guaranteed to see the loved ones who go to your ( and are sealed to you) .. So the goal, of course, is for everyone to live all of the codes as close as possible so you will be reunited in the Celestial Kingdom. Hence why mormons live such strict livestyles.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Which one lets you have the most sex? Cuz that's the one I want to join!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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23-02-2012, 09:02 AM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
Quote:Spirit prison
Do you think there are dementors? Smile

I'm hungover as shit from an epic hash last night ( not the drug but the drinking group with the running problem-- yes cheesy fucks ..haha) anyways the Harry Potter reference was enough to almost piss myself this morning.




Quote:But here's an interesting theological question: Can someone baptize Hitler into heaven, or is he disqualified because the limbo cutoff was a time cutoff vs. a "hearing the gospel" cutoff?

I bet they already have.. Just wonder who got the "honor"?!

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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23-02-2012, 09:12 AM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
(22-02-2012 10:31 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Which one lets you have the most sex? Cuz that's the one I want to join!

Always straight to the heart of the matter...

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23-02-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
Obviously telial is the most sex, but you gotta wait a 1000 years before you get to start. I can tell you the moment the rapture happens the telial heaven will be the loudest place ever.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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23-02-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: Baptism for the Dead
Can you explain this idea about "becoming a god"? Doesn't it seem sort of narcissistic to believe that you can be a god? At the very least someone who focuses on becoming a god must suffer from megalomania.

I'm curious as to why/how this is part of the doctrine.

Also, as a god, are you ever as powerful as the god that created you?

(23-02-2012 12:14 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Obviously telial is the most sex, but you gotta wait a 1000 years before you get to start. I can tell you the moment the rapture happens the telial heaven will be the loudest place ever.

Oh god... you have to wait 1000 years? That's going to be one epic sploosh...

Sorry... Blush I know, I can be immature sometimes. Sad
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