Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
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21-05-2015, 01:48 PM
Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
I'm a fairly new atheist (formerly a christian), and not very philosophically minded, so I rely on the articulate definitions and explanations of those more philosophically minded.

Maybe this is a really dumb question...and I may not be formulating this question best, but would it be true to say that even in if the typical logical arguments for the existence of god were somehow sound, it still wouldn't prove the existence of a god because it still doesn't provide any evidence? At the very least, it wouldn't prove any specific god. I feel like I've heard some sort of argument like this before, but need a little help from those more philosophically minded. Thanks for your help.
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21-05-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
(21-05-2015 01:48 PM)Learner Wrote:  I'm a fairly new atheist (formerly a christian), and not very philosophically minded, so I rely on the articulate definitions and explanations of those more philosophically minded.

Maybe this is a really dumb question...and I may not be formulating this question best, but would it be true to say that even in if the typical logical arguments for the existence of god were somehow sound, it still wouldn't prove the existence of a god because it still doesn't provide any evidence? At the very least, it wouldn't prove any specific god. I feel like I've heard some sort of argument like this before, but need a little help from those more philosophically minded. Thanks for your help.

You are correct. Theology without evidence is worth no more than a bucket of spit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-05-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
(21-05-2015 01:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-05-2015 01:48 PM)Learner Wrote:  I'm a fairly new atheist (formerly a christian), and not very philosophically minded, so I rely on the articulate definitions and explanations of those more philosophically minded.

Maybe this is a really dumb question...and I may not be formulating this question best, but would it be true to say that even in if the typical logical arguments for the existence of god were somehow sound, it still wouldn't prove the existence of a god because it still doesn't provide any evidence? At the very least, it wouldn't prove any specific god. I feel like I've heard some sort of argument like this before, but need a little help from those more philosophically minded. Thanks for your help.

You are correct. Theology without evidence is worth no more than a bucket of spit.

Chas, thank you for the confirmation. I was wrestling in my mind to think of what my question would mean at a broader level: logical consistency doesn't provide any evidence of something's existence, right? That seems to make sense. I'm trying to think of an analogy, since I'm an analogy person. Would a fitting analogy be something as follows: there's nothing illogical to say that a unicorn may exist in the universe, but just because the idea isn't illogical doesn't mean unicorns exist. (But with the god-example, some things about the nature of god are logically contradictory, therefore such god cannot exist.)

The reason I ask is because it "lets all the air out of the balloon" if some theist is going on and on about the standard logical arguments for the existence of god, for the atheist to then say, "Well, that's great, but that still doesn't provide any evidence for such a god's existence."
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21-05-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
And their arguments aren't sound to begin with, but your point is valid. There is no physical evidence. Just their feels and some bullshit prophecies.
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21-05-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
(21-05-2015 01:56 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  And their arguments aren't sound to begin with, but your point is valid. There is no physical evidence. Just their feels and some bullshit prophecies.

Agreed. I just love to completely demolish apologetic arguments from every angle. Smile

And since I'm not the most philosophically minded, a simple response like what I provided is helpful and easy.
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21-05-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
This may be a different headed down a slightly different route from where you were going but it's still enlightening.
Even if their was evidence (which there is not) of some sort of "something" that created the universe and everything evolved from that, there is a huge chasm between a deism and theism and then the christian god.

Hitchens made a great point when he said, given the main arguments for a god, Teleological, Kalam Cosmological or Ontological, you are still only left with a deity. The leap to theism from there is so substantial and any arguments I've heard for a theistic god are null and void.
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21-05-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
God cannot be proved or disproved empirically.

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21-05-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
(21-05-2015 02:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God cannot be proved or disproved empirically.

Unsupported assertion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-05-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
(21-05-2015 02:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-05-2015 02:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God cannot be proved or disproved empirically.

Unsupported assertion.

You're an unsupported assertion.

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21-05-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: Basic question about typical arguments for existence of god(s)
(21-05-2015 01:48 PM)Learner Wrote:  I'm a fairly new atheist (formerly a christian), and not very philosophically minded, so I rely on the articulate definitions and explanations of those more philosophically minded.

Maybe this is a really dumb question...and I may not be formulating this question best, but would it be true to say that even in if the typical logical arguments for the existence of god were somehow sound, it still wouldn't prove the existence of a god because it still doesn't provide any evidence? At the very least, it wouldn't prove any specific god. I feel like I've heard some sort of argument like this before, but need a little help from those more philosophically minded. Thanks for your help.

Such arguments are cases of special pleading - when one says that god is first cause, one state that god didn't need cause. Some others arguments are just playing with words or just plain stupid like Anselm's argument.

As for proving these can be tailored to suit specific god, but the problem is that such arguments don't really prove anything - these are only convincing to those already convinced.

Also such explanations don't enrich our knowledge - god did it don't explain anything.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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