Basis for Atheist Morality
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-02-2014, 09:38 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
Dogs act guilty when they steal stuff, mine hides in the bush if I go outside and its eaten the cats dinner off the table.

The possibility of getting caught creates a taboo guilt in humans (from pondering repercussions, and for most a, what if they did that to me), even if you are 100% sure you will get away with it, the guilty sick feeling will pervade.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-02-2014, 09:42 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
Morality promotes group survival.
Rats have been shown to possess empathy.
At least atheists do the right thing without the promise of the treat from Jebus for being good.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
11-02-2014, 10:43 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Your friendly neighbourhood deist here. Been a while since I started a thread, so I have a question and I'm curious to find out the atheist answer.

What is the basis of atheist morality (or, is there such a thing)?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?

The basis of morality is not the will of God or the will of society but the law of Identity.

That this question gets asked so much is evidence of the fact that religion has had a monopoly on morality, unjustly, for centuries. The choice has always to believe in a god and be moral or reject the idea of god and be immoral. There is no reason for there to be this dichotomy. A strong set of objective moral values is essential to the life of a man and we don't need them to be handed down to us by a god. We discover them the same way we learn the best way to grow a crop or make a printing press or the cure for cancer, by reason. Most of it has already been discovered by our ancestors and it really isn't all that difficult. If there is no god to give us our moral code there doesn't need to be. I know that I differ from many atheist in that I believe there are objective moral values. A moral code requires that you choose a purpose and have a goal. We can prove what should be the standard of morality, man's life as a rational being. We can and must discover the virtues needed to achieve our values and the faculty for doing that is reason. So very few people have ever been shown a rational basis for morality that the vast majority just take it for granted that it is not open to reason.

Man has a specific nature. Life on Earth places certain requirements on man in order for him to live and this is the basis of man's individual rights. If we want to live together then we must hold these individual rights as absolutes and we must respect the rights of others as much as we do our own. To steal is to violate the individual rights of others and to forfeit our own. Actions are right and wrong not because a god says so but because of there effect on man's life. I find it truly frightening that so many religious people can not give you a rational reason not to rape and murder and steal.

The basis of morality is the law of identity and stealing is always wrong, whether you can get away with it or not, because it is a violation of individual rights, as is rape, murder, fraud and lying.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like true scotsman's post
11-02-2014, 11:24 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  What is the basis of morality ?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?

The basis of morality is the ability to consider the consequences of your actions.
When you can consider the ramifications of your actions, you can discern whether an action will add to the happiness, health or well-being of an individual or if it will harm the health, happiness or well-being of an individual. You can also apply this to groups of people or society in general. Empathy for others plays a key role in the basis for morality.

As far as stealing from a stranger, when I consider the consequences of the theft (even if I don't get caught), those consequences are still there. The person I stole from is now without that item. Did I just take a gun (his only means of personal protection) ? Did I just take his money (which he had been saving to pay for something important) ?

My action also mentally changed the way in which I view myself as a person.
The action of theft mentally harms me. I now label myself as a thief, as someone who has committed an act that has not only brought shame to me as a person, it has harmed my character, my integrity and my sense of self worth.

If I am ever asked if I have stolen from anyone, I'm now also put into the position of telling the truth and dealing with those consequences or lying, which again, harms my mental image of myself, making me not only a thief, but now also a liar.

We, as human beings, have the ability to discern if an action will harm someone or aid someone. We can in turn label an action as morally right or morally wrong.
That is why the basis of morality must always come from within us. If it came from an outside source, we would have no basis to determine if that outside source was good or not.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-02-2014, 11:30 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Your friendly neighbourhood deist here.

Friendly, my fucking ASS.

Quote:Been a while since I started a thread,

You weren't missed.


Quote:so I have a question and I'm curious to find out the atheist answer.

Curiosity have NOTHING to do with it, you disingenuous lying fuck.

Quote:What is the basis of atheist morality (or, is there such a thing)?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?

Your loaded "questions" betrays an ignorance and arrogance that is nothing short of astounding. We don't steal shit because stealing is wrong. The fact that you refuse to get that (or, more likely PRETEND to not get it) says a hell of a lot more about you and your ignorance and arrogance than it does about us. Especially since you have been stinking up this forum for some time here and seen that atheists are fucking PEOPLE and not the immoral monsters you would like to fucking believe.

Fuck you. Just fucking fuck you.

In the ass.

With a cactus.

Wrapped in barbed wire.

And painted with habanero sauce.

You stupid patronizing fucktard.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-02-2014, 11:31 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
I've often wondered why Christians are so concerned about morality anyway, since, according to their Bible, all you really have to do to get into Heaven is accept "Jesus Christ" as your savior, and ask his forgiveness. Done. Who cares how moral you were before that? Christians certainly don't. How many prominent Christians have committed completely horrific immoral acts, then stood up at the pulpit or at a press conference and tearfully claim that they have re-affirmed their faith and asked "God's" forgiveness, and they honestly feel that they will be delivered into "Heaven" when they die. And other Christians cry right along with them and yell "Hallelujah!" and rant about how great their "God" is to forgive. I don't know why Christians bother to teach their children morality at all, since all they really need to do is believe that there is a Jesus and that he will forgive their sins, and they will be forgiven ANYTHING they do.

I was listening today to the recent "debate" (if you could call it that) between Matt Dillahunty and Ray Comfort, and Ray Comfort just kept repeating his same mantra of "atheists are only atheists because they want to sin!" But, for me, the way I see it, it's the opposite. Christians are only Christians so that they can make themselves feel better when they sin by convincing themselves that they have some sort of "get out of jail free" card. Christians sin just as much as atheists, they just convince themselves they're above it because they ask forgiveness from an imaginary sky-daddy.

AJ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like AJRyan6of7's post
11-02-2014, 11:46 PM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
Your turn *deist* Wink

What about a God who just creates the universe and then leaves it to its own devices makes you feel that your morals are grounded in anything more solid than mine ?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
12-02-2014, 12:06 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Your friendly neighbourhood deist here. Been a while since I started a thread, so I have a question and I'm curious to find out the atheist answer.

What is the basis of atheist morality (or, is there such a thing)?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?
I think society would be more tolerant and diverse without moral beliefs and the idea that we ought to force others to comply to them.

A non direct reason not to steal from strangers is the idea of your own circle of influence.
If you steal then it will be more likely that others steal, making it more likely that you need to keep an eye on your own stuff.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-02-2014, 12:18 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Your friendly neighbourhood deist here. Been a while since I started a thread, so I have a question and I'm curious to find out the atheist answer.

What is the basis of atheist morality (or, is there such a thing)?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?

Most of us seem to have an inate sense of fair play. In addition to that, we absorb and reflect the values of society at large. This is what allowed humans to exist as social animals long before law giver type gods were invented.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes toadaly's post
12-02-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
The fact that you cannot imagine anyone without your superstitions having any sort of morality is what is truly disturbing, NOTlookingforanswers. What you are essentially telling us is that the only thing keeping YOU from stealing, raping, murdering, etc., is your stupid fucking superstitions. That's a pretty gawddamn thin thread to be hanging your morality and ethics on, in our book. And, as we all know, as one who CLAIMS to be an EX-Xtard, you have presumably already cast off at least SOME of your silly superstitions. And there are many Xtards, like you CLAIM you used to be, who cannot envision YOU having any sort of morals without the belief you CLAIM you stopped holding, in the fairy tale monster YOU SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY MORE. Time for you to connect the fucking dots and GROW THE FUCK UP, you arrogant idiot.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: