Basis for Atheist Morality
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12-02-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
Maybe NotReallyLookingForAnswers can tune in to CNN this evening :
Anderson Cooper : "Babies and Morality".

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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12-02-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(12-02-2014 02:13 AM)morondog Wrote:  Jassus man Tongue Give the man a chance Wink This is a common assertion made by Christians, that atheists do not have any morals because they lack belief in God. As such, even though in hindsight it sounds silly, many who reject Christianity at some point will want to know if this is in fact true. As I see it he's not saying "I'm better than you because I have morals based on God", he is genuinely asking "If I chuck this God chap, where do I get my morals from ?"...

Have you been somehow absent during this idiot's entire tenure in this forum or something?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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12-02-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(12-02-2014 08:15 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  lookingforanswers - Are you suggesting that deism has some more concrete basis for morality than humanism alone provides? That morality comes from some god who doesn't interact with the universe? Just how "deist" is your supposed god if you are suggesting that morality it some way flows from it?

As someone who has battled LFA quite extensively on here, I think I can answer this. LFA can't entirely let go of his theist irrationalities because he believes his god made us with the ability to have morality, that he deliberately set things in motion where the end result would be humans with morality that he gave us. Laughat

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12-02-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
NOTlookingforanswers showed up here claiming that he has a fiance' who is an atheist.

NOTlookingforanswers, why don't you ask your "finance" (that I don't believe actually exists) how "she" manages to keep from stealing, pillaging and murdering without an invisible ceiling cat watching over her, and see how long your "engagement" lasts.

Fucking moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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12-02-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(12-02-2014 08:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  NOTlookingforanswers showed up here claiming that he has a fiance' who is an atheist.

NOTlookingforanswers, why don't you ask your "finance" (that I don't believe actually exists) how "she" manages to keep from stealing, pillaging and murdering without an invisible ceiling cat watching over her, and see how long your "engagement" lasts.

Fucking moron.

Sounds like she's the one fucking the moron. Dodgy

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12-02-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(12-02-2014 08:35 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 08:15 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  lookingforanswers - Are you suggesting that deism has some more concrete basis for morality than humanism alone provides? That morality comes from some god who doesn't interact with the universe? Just how "deist" is your supposed god if you are suggesting that morality it some way flows from it?

As someone who has battled LFA quite extensively on here, I think I can answer this. LFA can't entirely let go of his theist irrationalities because he believes his god made us with the ability to have morality, that he deliberately set things in motion where the end result would be humans with morality that he gave us. Laughat

His "non-interventionist" god (that thus couldn't have created the universe) intervened and gave us morals? NLFA, cognitive dissonance much? Evolving story much?




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STILL "LOOKING"

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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12-02-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Your friendly neighbourhood deist here. Been a while since I started a thread, so I have a question and I'm curious to find out the atheist answer.

What is the basis of atheist morality (or, is there such a thing)?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?
All you have to do is look at yourself (at least I hope). If you knew there was no god, would you then steal? Is a god the only thing that keeps you from being immoral?

Besides, you said you're a deist. If that's true, then "god" should already be having little, if any, impact on your moral behavior.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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12-02-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
This basis for an atheist morality is taken from a book i've just read (series called The Chronicles Of Hope and is being pushed by dawkins in the UK):

“Frank Noon is a visionary working-class genius politician who knows how to fix society’s problems and form a culture based around notions of kindness, science and reason rather than greed, power and elitist ideology”

I couldn't really sum it up better than that, there isn't an atheist morality as such but it just implores kindness at the heart of it
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12-02-2014, 10:47 AM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2014 12:30 PM by Simon Moon.)
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
(11-02-2014 07:11 PM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  What is the basis of atheist morality (or, is there such a thing)?

And, as a related question:

Is there any reason for an atheist not to steal from a stranger if they know they won't get caught?

So, is the only thing that keeps you from stealing is your belief in a god? If so, by all means, continue believing.


Morality, in essence is all about the well being of sentient beings.

We all live in the same physical universe, subject to the same physical laws.

From this, it can easily be extrapolated that (in most cases): life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery, etc.

I do not steal from others because I do not want to live in a society where it is likely for others to steal my stuff.

Included in this is a strong evolutionary component, in that our ancestors evolved in small groups (about 100) where cooperation, altruism, kin selection, etc were necessary for survival of the group.

For example, Bonobo chimps (our closest cousins), have a pretty strong set of morals, including: not stealing from other members of their group, sharing food even if it is in short supply, caring for orphaned babies, protecting other members of the group even if it puts one at risk themselves, punishing violent members of the group, and more.

Which god do Bonobos believe in?
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12-02-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: Basis for Atheist Morality
I haven't read the thread. I apologise in advance if I tread ground which has already been covered.

LFA, you stated in a different thread that you're a deist not a theist, so out of interest, where do you get your moral foundation?

Society and the world I live in gives me mine. Especially since the end of the 17th century, due to the enlightenment, very fortunately for us, the custodians and dictators of morality, the religious, had that dubious honour rested from their hands. As a species which has evolved to live in groups, our core morality is innate, we're a communal animal and this, coupled with an ability to rationalize gives us our basis. There is often an assumption that secularists 'borrow' morality from the religious but there is strong argument to the contrary. It is resistance from the secular world that has in fact forced the behaviour of the religious to improve over the centuries, rejecting witch burning, misogyny and death penalties for trivial crimes. We can even witness this phenomenon in our own times. 'Moderate' muslims are primarily found in places like Europe and the USA, this is primarily due to western civilisation completely rejecting Sharia law and also, recently Christian dogma has been rejected in favour of legalising gay marriage. Also in my life time, CofE have accepted women priests and Irish Catholics have started reporting pedophilic priests directly to the police. All of this is due to evolution of morality in the right direction in the secular world which puts pressure on the religious to move with the times or lose congregation. So that's where I get my morality, innate synaptic input coupled with the progressive trend of the species.

Love him or hate him, Dawkins sums it up fairly well here...





It's worth checking out some Sam Harris debates on the subject too Thumbsup

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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