Becoming The Demon
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05-05-2013, 07:39 PM
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-05-2013 04:04 PM)amyb Wrote:  I'm gonna guess and say it's because a haircut is more socially acceptable.

But that's cultural and what's acceptable changes.

And like I said before, another important factor is whether or not you care what the neighbors think (and if you think your job choices will be affected).

And I'm going to call bullshit.

Surgical procedures are not haircuts or weight loss or body building.

This is not a social construct, this is the difference between surgical, permanent alteration and natural function.

During a haircut; a portion of an individual's body - namely the filamentous fibers which are rooted in the dermis - are carefully cut with sharp implements in order to achieve a desired appearance.

During the cropping of one's ears; a portion of an individual's body - namely the auricles; mainly comprised of cartilage and a dermal layer - are carefully cut with sharp implements in order to achieve a desired appearance.

During bodybuilding; a portion of an individual's body - namely the muscular tissue beneath the dermal layer - is carefully cut on the microscopic level using continuous tension of heavy weights in order to achieve a desired appearance.


There is no real difference here, Chas. You can say "It's just not the same" all day long, but demonstrably, it is. Cropping one's ear or splitting one's tongue is absolutely no different than getting a nose job or some fat sucked from your midsection or more muscle on your arms or a shorter style of hair. Also, your suggestion of "natural function" brings to mind the sickeningly Christian argument regarding homosexual male sodomy.

I'm sorry. I respect you, but your argument here is not reasonable.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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05-05-2013, 07:48 PM
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 06:04 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Like Girly posted - it's gonna get strange looks on one side of the world.

Other sides, you're not doing enough. Big Grin

EDIT: Instead of making this transformation a private matter, you chose to post it here.

Exhibitionist much? Big Grin

lol. I'm actually a rather reserved individual, personally, but there's also a part of me that is a showman. An artist. If I'm willing to display an artistic appearance to anyone who sees a demon walking into the mall or densit's office; I should be willing to display it here.

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05-05-2013, 08:04 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2013 08:08 PM by amyb.)
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-05-2013 04:04 PM)amyb Wrote:  I'm gonna guess and say it's because a haircut is more socially acceptable.

But that's cultural and what's acceptable changes.

And like I said before, another important factor is whether or not you care what the neighbors think (and if you think your job choices will be affected).

And I'm going to call bullshit.

Surgical procedures are not haircuts or weight loss or body building.

This is not a social construct, this is the difference between surgical, permanent alteration and natural function.
I'm gonna have to agree with Mis's response to this regarding the "natural function" bit. It's his body, he can do with it what he pleases so long as he accepts any potential consequences of his actions. It makes it sound like you're gonna say people can't have oral or anal sex, because that's not the natural function of a penis/mouth/anus/vagina. I sometimes open plastic bags with my teeth if no scissors are available, even though their natural function is for eating.

I'm not sure of the "surgical procedure" we're talking about either, I thought we were talking about a couple of piercings, but that's neither here nor there.

And there are many cultures in the world where it is totally acceptable to make permanent alterations. The only difference between a woman getting breast implants or a nose job, and somebody get subdermal horn implants on their forehead or something is that the former is more widely accepted, even "normal" in some circles; and the latter is perceived as 'weird" and possibly pathological. The actual thing being done is the same.

But yeah, I wouldn't compare such things to a haircut (even though Mis is correct that they are all ways to modify one's appearance), but I do think a nosejob, breast implants, liposuction, and even extreme corsetry and bodybuilding are all valid comparisons to most body modification.
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05-05-2013, 09:57 PM
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 08:04 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(05-05-2013 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  And I'm going to call bullshit.

Surgical procedures are not haircuts or weight loss or body building.

This is not a social construct, this is the difference between surgical, permanent alteration and natural function.
I'm gonna have to agree with Mis's response to this regarding the "natural function" bit. It's his body, he can do with it what he pleases so long as he accepts any potential consequences of his actions. It makes it sound like you're gonna say people can't have oral or anal sex, because that's not the natural function of a penis/mouth/anus/vagina. I sometimes open plastic bags with my teeth if no scissors are available, even though their natural function is for eating.

I'm not sure of the "surgical procedure" we're talking about either, I thought we were talking about a couple of piercings, but that's neither here nor there.

And there are many cultures in the world where it is totally acceptable to make permanent alterations. The only difference between a woman getting breast implants or a nose job, and somebody get subdermal horn implants on their forehead or something is that the former is more widely accepted, even "normal" in some circles; and the latter is perceived as 'weird" and possibly pathological. The actual thing being done is the same.

But yeah, I wouldn't compare such things to a haircut (even though Mis is correct that they are all ways to modify one's appearance), but I do think a nosejob, breast implants, liposuction, and even extreme corsetry and bodybuilding are all valid comparisons to most body modification.

The only difference is in the extent to which the body is modified, and in how reversible that modification is. (Which is irrelevant anyway) The cutting of hair is no different than the cutting of flesh.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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05-05-2013, 10:15 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2013 10:23 PM by amyb.)
RE: Becoming The Demon
^My point was that hair is not alive and flesh is. Which is irrelevant anyway, yeah, it's still part of the body and part of your appearance, but I think people get squeamish at the thought of anything that might be painful or invasive. I could have worded my post better if I said, perhaps, that breast implants and horn implants are not that dissimilar, but breast implants are more accepted because they are more common and more people find them aesthetically pleasing.

The "it looks bad" argument always annoys me, anyway, because that assumes the person even gives a damn about the other person's idea of what is or is not aesthetically pleasing.
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05-05-2013, 11:56 PM
RE: Becoming The Demon
For patients that get major plastic surgery, a good plastic surgeon will give a psyche test first.

A person who builds muscles can have different psyche motivation as well. It can be to feel fit or for goal setting, self esteem, etc. However, there can be an at risk group where the benefits don't out way the drawbacks and it can be unhealthy. This is called Muscle dysmorphia.

Body dysmorphia manifests in several ways with various reasoning.

Ever heard of tan mom? She too fell victim to the addiction of tanning as a modification.

Here are 15 reasons someone can be addicted to tattoos.

The way you described your experience it seems your pain sensors changed into something soothing (addiction, adrenaline, etc). Instead of self expression this reminded me of self harm which has the same affect.

These are just to illustrate that there exists a difference between self expression (which I am all for, I have modified my body for self expression, too) and a psyche reason (don't be a bald Britney , she didn't do this for the right reasons. However, Demi Moore did.).

Given your history you've shared on TTA and the way you react in some situations, along with the feelings you described in your OP, I think this is deeper than self expression. It doesn't mean anyone else can make the choice for you, you get to do that (and if you do, I agree- pics or it didn't happen Smile ), however it's important to note that even IF you do this, it might not be enough. You might need something else, and something else, and something else. You might never arrive at the place you're hoping to because the root reason is not being addressed. I am guessing (and only guessing, I couldn't say for sure and I am not trained to either) that there is a lot from your past childhood and growing out of childhood years that perhaps you were not empathized with (people can become apathetic as I think you or someone mentioned from this, it is a protection skill for resiliency), perhaps your sense of control was taken away (by mental or other abuse) and having control over YOUR body is something that make you feel powerful, something that was taken away before but now you can exert it.

What happens if you do this and it's not enough, or wasn't what you expected?
What if this becomes an addiction (pleasure centre, much like you described to your reaction of the pain vs. the goal is how you look)?
What if you do this but in the mean time have come to terms with your past (if that's the case) or just don't get the same feeling from it and you regret it?

By seeing a professional before you make a huge decision you are only covering the bases. A professional can only advise you, but it's you who gets to make the decision in the end. It's just another precautionary act such as posting here to hear what people say.

I am not one to say that the issue is how you look or how others will react to you. I hate the boxes people get placed in, the labels and the expectations. They disgust me. F 'em I say. Smile What matters, though, is the health and wellbeing of both your body and your mind (I am concerned about that part more here, obviously).

Good luck!
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06-05-2013, 07:25 AM
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 07:39 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(05-05-2013 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  And I'm going to call bullshit.

Surgical procedures are not haircuts or weight loss or body building.

This is not a social construct, this is the difference between surgical, permanent alteration and natural function.

During a haircut; a portion of an individual's body - namely the filamentous fibers which are rooted in the dermis - are carefully cut with sharp implements in order to achieve a desired appearance.

During the cropping of one's ears; a portion of an individual's body - namely the auricles; mainly comprised of cartilage and a dermal layer - are carefully cut with sharp implements in order to achieve a desired appearance.

During bodybuilding; a portion of an individual's body - namely the muscular tissue beneath the dermal layer - is carefully cut on the microscopic level using continuous tension of heavy weights in order to achieve a desired appearance.


There is no real difference here, Chas. You can say "It's just not the same" all day long, but demonstrably, it is. Cropping one's ear or splitting one's tongue is absolutely no different than getting a nose job or some fat sucked from your midsection or more muscle on your arms or a shorter style of hair. Also, your suggestion of "natural function" brings to mind the sickeningly Christian argument regarding homosexual male sodomy.

I'm sorry. I respect you, but your argument here is not reasonable.

Your rationalizing that these are equivalent demonstrates your irrationality on this subject.

Hair is not living flesh.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-05-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Becoming The Demon
Since it's your new version you're wanting to get noticed, what in your old version did you not want people to see?

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06-05-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 08:04 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(05-05-2013 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  And I'm going to call bullshit.

Surgical procedures are not haircuts or weight loss or body building.

This is not a social construct, this is the difference between surgical, permanent alteration and natural function.
I'm gonna have to agree with Mis's response to this regarding the "natural function" bit. It's his body, he can do with it what he pleases so long as he accepts any potential consequences of his actions. It makes it sound like you're gonna say people can't have oral or anal sex, because that's not the natural function of a penis/mouth/anus/vagina. I sometimes open plastic bags with my teeth if no scissors are available, even though their natural function is for eating.

I'm not sure of the "surgical procedure" we're talking about either, I thought we were talking about a couple of piercings, but that's neither here nor there.

And there are many cultures in the world where it is totally acceptable to make permanent alterations. The only difference between a woman getting breast implants or a nose job, and somebody get subdermal horn implants on their forehead or something is that the former is more widely accepted, even "normal" in some circles; and the latter is perceived as 'weird" and possibly pathological. The actual thing being done is the same.

But yeah, I wouldn't compare such things to a haircut (even though Mis is correct that they are all ways to modify one's appearance), but I do think a nosejob, breast implants, liposuction, and even extreme corsetry and bodybuilding are all valid comparisons to most body modification.

Please re-read his posts, he's talking about far more than piercings.

There are many things that are or were 'culturally acceptable'; foot-binding, leaving babies on hillsides to die, throwing virgins into volcanoes, cannibalism, witch-burning, torture, ...

'Culturally acceptable' is not a strong argument. Drinking Beverage

But equating haircuts, shaving, or fingernail clipping to surgery is fucking stupid.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-05-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: Becoming The Demon
(05-05-2013 09:57 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(05-05-2013 08:04 PM)amyb Wrote:  I'm gonna have to agree with Mis's response to this regarding the "natural function" bit. It's his body, he can do with it what he pleases so long as he accepts any potential consequences of his actions. It makes it sound like you're gonna say people can't have oral or anal sex, because that's not the natural function of a penis/mouth/anus/vagina. I sometimes open plastic bags with my teeth if no scissors are available, even though their natural function is for eating.

I'm not sure of the "surgical procedure" we're talking about either, I thought we were talking about a couple of piercings, but that's neither here nor there.

And there are many cultures in the world where it is totally acceptable to make permanent alterations. The only difference between a woman getting breast implants or a nose job, and somebody get subdermal horn implants on their forehead or something is that the former is more widely accepted, even "normal" in some circles; and the latter is perceived as 'weird" and possibly pathological. The actual thing being done is the same.

But yeah, I wouldn't compare such things to a haircut (even though Mis is correct that they are all ways to modify one's appearance), but I do think a nosejob, breast implants, liposuction, and even extreme corsetry and bodybuilding are all valid comparisons to most body modification.

The only difference is in the extent to which the body is modified, and in how reversible that modification is. (Which is irrelevant anyway) The cutting of hair is no different than the cutting of flesh.

That you can not see the difference is appalling.
I'm more convinced than ever that you have an underlying psychological problem that needs addressing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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