Becoming an adult
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15-10-2013, 08:01 PM
Becoming an adult
Wasn't exactly sure where to put this, seems pretty close to philosophy.
A slight intro to Joseph Campbell. This man's writings and lectures were the very inspiration for George Lucas to create Star Wars. (assuming episode 4-6 I don't know what happened to the other ones)In the following video he describes a journey into adulthood where children are brought up to fear masks, masks representing gods. And ultimately to conquer god, conquer that fear to move on into adult life.



I would love to hear your thoughts and perspectives. In christianity I always disliked the term "god fearing" Why should they fear god? To instill that fear but never break away from it? Maybe they are still clinging on to that security that god gives them. Maybe they are supposed to break away.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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15-10-2013, 08:09 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
Christians genuinely believe we are born with sin and want to do all the horrible things they accuse Atheists of doing.
Only faith in the lord and a constant fear of hell will allow a person to be (their definition of) good.

Not only that , if you have never heard of the Christian GOD (remote islander) and then some one preaches it (jesus) to you, you have to have Faith on the spot or you will go to hell because you have heard the word and not accepted it.
Not sure about how other faiths treat this subject but I'm guessing its similar.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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15-10-2013, 08:58 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
Men were suppose to break away. In those simple, tribal cultures it makes sense for boys to become men by sloughing off silly superstitions. A real man can make better decisions for his family and tribe. A real man will face his demons and become his own god.

I don't think that it's any coincidence that true theocracy in christianity took hold when Rome was in full power and was perpetuated. I don't think it's a coincidence that islam took hold at the height of culture and societal culmination in the arab nations.

When a culture becomes sophisticated and complicated enough, the smart and powerful will use superstition and dogma to gain control of the weak and uneducated. This is what has happened. The tables turn and those who would be real men are made to fear and cower before the gods, because the powerful no longer need the weak to become strong. The rhetoric is passed along and through the generations made stronger through indoctrination.

The men who wear the masks are now the gods. If we are to be men, we must fight them and break free.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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15-10-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 08:58 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Men were suppose to break away. In those simple, tribal cultures it makes sense for boys to become men by sloughing off silly superstitions. A real man can make better decisions for his family and tribe. A real man will face his demons and become his own god.

I don't think that it's any coincidence that true theocracy in christianity took hold when Rome was in full power and was perpetuated. I don't think it's a coincidence that islam took hold at the height of culture and societal culmination in the arab nations.

When a culture becomes sophisticated and complicated enough, the smart and powerful will use superstition and dogma to gain control of the weak and uneducated. This is what has happened. The tables turn and those who would be real men are made to fear and cower before the gods, because the powerful no longer need the weak to become strong. The rhetoric is passed along and through the generations made stronger through indoctrination.

The men who wear the masks are now the gods. If we are to be men, we must fight them and break free.
This is similar to what I think. Some how its meaning got corrupted to a literal sense. It couldn't possibly have been meant to be taken as literal. There are still many christians who believe that the bible is of metaphor and allegory. I think what jump started christianity was when Emperor Constantine took it as his religion, I think the story goes is that he witnessed a miracle from the christian god and it favored him in battle. Christianity might have been an obscure cult back then, though when the emperor favors it everyone has to.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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15-10-2013, 09:22 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 09:16 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(15-10-2013 08:58 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Men were suppose to break away. In those simple, tribal cultures it makes sense for boys to become men by sloughing off silly superstitions. A real man can make better decisions for his family and tribe. A real man will face his demons and become his own god.

I don't think that it's any coincidence that true theocracy in christianity took hold when Rome was in full power and was perpetuated. I don't think it's a coincidence that islam took hold at the height of culture and societal culmination in the arab nations.

When a culture becomes sophisticated and complicated enough, the smart and powerful will use superstition and dogma to gain control of the weak and uneducated. This is what has happened. The tables turn and those who would be real men are made to fear and cower before the gods, because the powerful no longer need the weak to become strong. The rhetoric is passed along and through the generations made stronger through indoctrination.

The men who wear the masks are now the gods. If we are to be men, we must fight them and break free.
This is similar to what I think. Some how its meaning got corrupted to a literal sense. It couldn't possibly have been meant to be taken as literal. There are still many christians who believe that the bible is of metaphor and allegory. I think what jump started christianity was when Emperor Constantine took it as his religion, I think the story goes is that he witnessed a miracle from the christian god and it favored him in battle. Christianity might have been an obscure cult back then, though when the emperor favors it everyone has to.

Well I'm no expert, but from what I've read Constantine really didn't buy into it. He saw the opportunity in unifying the beliefs of the commoners to bolster his power and took advantage of the situation.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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15-10-2013, 10:30 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
I think when you take an over-all look at the church's success in history, a strong case could be made that Rome's adoption of Christianity as a state religion gave it a huge boost. The religion traveled Roman roads north into Europe, where it became more sophisticated at behavior control and revenue generation and was spread to the new world.

That Conrad vid was great, really analogous--particularly for rationalists who have escaped the church. If your raised in faith-based environment, the men in the masks are standing behind a pulpit, you're taught never to question--never second-guess the leader or the "wisdom" you're taught. At least the New Guinea tribes let their youth "fight" the gods, and expect them to prevail. Christian churches are scared fuck-all of that, and shun people who don't stay on point. It's really awful, the lengths they will go to maintain the fairytale.
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15-10-2013, 11:12 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 10:30 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  I think when you take an over-all look at the church's success in history, a strong case could be made that Rome's adoption of Christianity as a state religion gave it a huge boost. The religion traveled Roman roads north into Europe, where it became more sophisticated at behavior control and revenue generation and was spread to the new world.

That Conrad vid was great, really analogous--particularly for rationalists who have escaped the church. If your raised in faith-based environment, the men in the masks are standing behind a pulpit, you're taught never to question--never second-guess the leader or the "wisdom" you're taught. At least the New Guinea tribes let their youth "fight" the gods, and expect them to prevail. Christian churches are scared fuck-all of that, and shun people who don't stay on point. It's really awful, the lengths they will go to maintain the fairytale.
It is sad, they even go as far as to create false sciences since real science threatens them so. They want this sense of legitimacy in modern society. They are the only way, the only path, the only source of morality and truth. If your against them or criticize them in any way they will threaten they will fight and ostracize. In some religions to leave is death. Its totalitarianism at its core.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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15-10-2013, 11:30 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 10:30 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  If your raised in faith-based environment, the men in the masks are standing behind a pulpit, you're taught never to question--never second-guess the leader or the "wisdom" you're taught. At least the New Guinea tribes let their youth "fight" the gods, and expect them to prevail. Christian churches are scared fuck-all of that, and shun people who don't stay on point. It's really awful, the lengths they will go to maintain the fairytale.

The awful part is the cultural acceptance. My daddy was the man in the mask behind the pulpit, only he didn't wear any mask. He just doesn't know any better. Maybe he does, but we haven't had the chance to talk about it at length. I'm not sure that he would admit it if he did.

It's not a fairytale to folks anymore. It's not jumping out of a chimney in a scary Santa Claus mask and wrestling with the kid until you give up and you all enjoy a round of milk and cookies.

This is the be all end all for people. This is the ultimate question both asked and answered for you before you can even conceive of it. And the system is very good at what it does. Not all those in leadership positions are seeking power, my father is a good and humble man, one of the best men I know besides his irrational beliefs. He does what he does because he believes it is the right thing to do. And I can't fault him for that.

However, I do believe that reason is gaining in today's society. Even the church has to evolve and shed it's detrimental dogma in order to stay relevant in the current progressive state of things. This is a positive sign. Trends show these ancient superstitions to be waning, we just have to keep fighting the masks.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-10-2013, 12:40 AM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 08:09 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Christians genuinely believe we are born with sin and want to do all the horrible things they accuse Atheists of doing.
Only faith in the lord and a constant fear of hell will allow a person to be (their definition of) good.

Not only that , if you have never heard of the Christian GOD (remote islander) and then some one preaches it (jesus) to you, you have to have Faith on the spot or you will go to hell because you have heard the word and not accepted it.
Not sure about how other faiths treat this subject but I'm guessing its similar.

Just a few thoughts:
- Any Christian that knows their stuff knows that faith, or just going around saying you've got it, doesn't make you good- it has to be backed up by actions
- 'Constant fear of hell'- Never had it preached to me that way. Threats don't really work in any situation
- If faith was something that had to be decided on the spot, about 99.9% would never get there.

I often wonder if both Christians and Atheists have nothing better to do than sit around and come up with sweeping, false generalisations about each other. Sometimes to seems there's more mud than facts thrown about
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16-10-2013, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2013 07:01 AM by Dom.)
RE: Becoming an adult
So as per that video, what do you think is the cause of the current young generation's reluctance to leave home and strike out on their own?

In my generation people couldn't wait to hit 18 and move out on their own. Even though it meant a compromise regarding the quality of housing and all that. Nobody minded the fact that one had to start at the bottom, it was the freedom of decision we wanted.

Nowadays, I see so many grown "children" still living with their parents, or moving back after a stunt in the real world.

What has changed?

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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