Becoming an adult
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16-10-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Becoming an adult
(16-10-2013 05:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  So as per that video, what do you think is the cause of the current young generation's reluctance to leave home and strike out on their own?

In my generation people couldn't wait to hit 18 and move out on their own. Even though it meant a compromise regarding the quality of housing and all that. Nobody minded the fact that one had to start at the bottom, it was the freedom of decision we wanted.

Nowadays, I see so many grown "children" still living with their parents, or moving back after a stunt in the real world.

What has changed?
The economy, higher standard of living. Spoiled bratsTongue
He did say the "psychology of dependency" I personally don't know for sure. Suppose we lack that defining moment some societies your adulthood is nothing more than your age and some it is when you get your license or able to marry these are purely external factors. With the risk of sounding woo we got to look inward to see what motivates us. As I said I don't know.Consider

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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16-10-2013, 08:24 AM
RE: Becoming an adult
(16-10-2013 12:40 AM)Yasmin Wrote:  I often wonder if both Christians and Atheists have nothing better to do than sit around and come up with sweeping, false generalisations about each other. Sometimes to seems there's more mud than facts thrown about

The problem is that there are no "facts" in christianity. God exists in the mind, therefore every single person has a slightly different concept of who god is and what is "real" about him. So until we are talking to one individual about their faith all we have are generalizations.

Also, keep in mind a lot of us used to be christians. When I make a statement about them it pertains more to what my faith was to me rather then being a sweeping generalization.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-10-2013, 08:58 AM
RE: Becoming an adult
(16-10-2013 12:40 AM)Yasmin Wrote:  Just a few thoughts:
- Any Christian that knows their stuff knows that faith, or just going around saying you've got it, doesn't make you good- it has to be backed up by actions
- 'Constant fear of hell'- Never had it preached to me that way. Threats don't really work in any situation
- If faith was something that had to be decided on the spot, about 99.9% would never get there.

I often wonder if both Christians and Atheists have nothing better to do than sit around and come up with sweeping, false generalisations about each other. Sometimes to seems there's more mud than facts thrown about

Most atheists have been believers, but no believers have been atheists. Atheists are perfectly aware of what it's like to be Christian or whatever religion they hail from, but believers can only guess what atheists think.

Quote:The economy, higher standard of living. Spoiled brats.
He did say the "psychology of dependency" I personally don't know for sure. Suppose we lack that defining moment some societies your adulthood is nothing more than your age and some it is when you get your license or able to marry these are purely external factors. With the risk of sounding woo we got to look inward to see what motivates us. As I said I don't know.

I don't think it's the economy - the feeling of independence made up for all the economic setbacks back then. People moved from upper middle class houses to tiny, dilapidated apartments in the bad part of town and were proud of it. Furnished the place with discarded furniture and stuff and made it home. Enjoyed the complete freedom.

Nothing woo about looking inward - it's always good to know oneself.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-10-2013, 10:03 AM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 08:01 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I would love to hear your thoughts and perspectives. In christianity I always disliked the term "god fearing" Why should they fear god? To instill that fear but never break away from it? Maybe they are still clinging on to that security that god gives them. Maybe they are supposed to break away.

I would just like to say here that to "fear God" is not to be afraid, but to respect him. Somewhat different.

Also, I really wish I could watch your video and say something worthwhile about it, but the Great Firewall of China blocks YouTube Weeping
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16-10-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: Becoming an adult
(16-10-2013 10:03 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  
(15-10-2013 08:01 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I would love to hear your thoughts and perspectives. In christianity I always disliked the term "god fearing" Why should they fear god? To instill that fear but never break away from it? Maybe they are still clinging on to that security that god gives them. Maybe they are supposed to break away.

I would just like to say here that to "fear God" is not to be afraid, but to respect him. Somewhat different.

Also, I really wish I could watch your video and say something worthwhile about it, but the Great Firewall of China blocks YouTube Weeping
Thats a damn shame, sure you can't find a loophole? Well I'll sum it up for you. You see these children are brought up to fear men in masks they represent god and in some cultures these children are taken from their homes and dragged outside by these men in masks and he has to fight them. In his mind he is fighting a god. When he fights and beats god the men remove their masks and the boy puts on the mask to become a god. You see, god to them is a metaphor for life, power and ultimate mystery and when you conquer the god you become it and it is then part of you. Knowing that you don't need to fear god, since god is life. For this he is better prepared to face life without fear and thus become a man.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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16-10-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 11:30 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(15-10-2013 10:30 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  If your raised in faith-based environment, the men in the masks are standing behind a pulpit, you're taught never to question--never second-guess the leader or the "wisdom" you're taught. At least the New Guinea tribes let their youth "fight" the gods, and expect them to prevail. Christian churches are scared fuck-all of that, and shun people who don't stay on point. It's really awful, the lengths they will go to maintain the fairytale.

The awful part is the cultural acceptance. My daddy was the man in the mask behind the pulpit, only he didn't wear any mask. He just doesn't know any better. Maybe he does, but we haven't had the chance to talk about it at length. I'm not sure that he would admit it if he did.

It's not a fairytale to folks anymore. It's not jumping out of a chimney in a scary Santa Claus mask and wrestling with the kid until you give up and you all enjoy a round of milk and cookies.

This is the be all end all for people. This is the ultimate question both asked and answered for you before you can even conceive of it. And the system is very good at what it does. Not all those in leadership positions are seeking power, my father is a good and humble man, one of the best men I know besides his irrational beliefs. He does what he does because he believes it is the right thing to do. And I can't fault him for that.

However, I do believe that reason is gaining in today's society. Even the church has to evolve and shed it's detrimental dogma in order to stay relevant in the current progressive state of things. This is a positive sign. Trends show these ancient superstitions to be waning, we just have to keep fighting the masks.

"This is the be all end all for people." So true. There's a Youtuber, AntiCitizenX, who has some great vids dealing with the psychology of belief. One dealing with the concept of Identity deals specifically with the first part of your post and is a lot more eloquent than I could be.

I, too, see hopeful trends in America and the world. The percentages of non-religious people appear to be increasing. For me, the importance of advocating reason over dogma makes the occasional unpleasant exchange worthwhile.
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16-10-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: Becoming an adult
(15-10-2013 11:12 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(15-10-2013 10:30 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  I think when you take an over-all look at the church's success in history, a strong case could be made that Rome's adoption of Christianity as a state religion gave it a huge boost. The religion traveled Roman roads north into Europe, where it became more sophisticated at behavior control and revenue generation and was spread to the new world.

That Conrad vid was great, really analogous--particularly for rationalists who have escaped the church. If your raised in faith-based environment, the men in the masks are standing behind a pulpit, you're taught never to question--never second-guess the leader or the "wisdom" you're taught. At least the New Guinea tribes let their youth "fight" the gods, and expect them to prevail. Christian churches are scared fuck-all of that, and shun people who don't stay on point. It's really awful, the lengths they will go to maintain the fairytale.
It is sad, they even go as far as to create false sciences since real science threatens them so. They want this sense of legitimacy in modern society. They are the only way, the only path, the only source of morality and truth. If your against them or criticize them in any way they will threaten they will fight and ostracize. In some religions to leave is death. Its totalitarianism at its core.

I have no issue with a person's personal beliefs as long as they remain just that. I become actively resistant when personal beliefs, personal concepts of god, and the like are being forced on the general public. The insistence of teaching creation "science" is one example of many ways American christianism does this.

And the "in-group, out-group" mentality is so unhelpful to our world. Using invectives and polarizing rhetoric is not a characteristic of people who work and play well together.
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