Before the Big Bang
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17-04-2017, 09:33 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2017 09:48 AM by SeaJay.)
Before the Big Bang
I was listening to Sunday's (16th Apr) Atheist Experience with Jan Peeples and Matt Dillahunty. Long story short, one caller called Alex (from CO) said that scientists believe there was something that caused the big bang. He also said it was God, because God was timeless, eternal, and two other things I can't remember.

The above is too simplistic a presentation of what was discussed but it's gotten me thinking.

What might have caused the bang to, go bang? Do scientists have a theory? I'm fully aware the Alex is just inserting God simply because scientists don't know, but I was wondering if they have some reason to believe what might have happened?

I'm not trying to preach or troll here. I would just like to have some sort of discussion because I'm admitting to being clueless on this topic.

Thanks

"Scientists don't know - therefore aliens!"

EDIT: Here's the relevant part (at 1 hour 16m 12 secs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h4uxzBqf7U

He says God is a transcendent, immaterial, timeless (he clarified this has meaning eternal), spaceless, eternal, uncaused all powerful entity that created the universe.

The thinking is that this entity can exist outside the universe, the universe had a beginning, therefore something had to exist apart from it, therefore, this entity he calls God, 'caused the universe' to come into being.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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17-04-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
I'm sorry but that the aliens crack is rather disingenuous. No respected scientist (to my knowledge), at least not seriously, is suggesting this:

[Image: 9148130.jpg]

Have to run now but have a look-see at this and also the extremely wonderful Jim Al-Khalili's The beginning and the end of the universe has a rather mind-bending theory about it (can't say my mind was esp. happy with it, but it wasn't "aliens gone done it")




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17-04-2017, 09:49 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
Thanks Vera

I was just trying to be humorous about the 'aliens' created the universe. Sorry

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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17-04-2017, 09:59 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
Based on our inability to peek beyond the big bang, it follows that ........ N O T H I N G. Nothing follows. Both a beginning-of-everything, uni-verse theory and yuuuuuge, frothy pile of soap bubble like multi-verses account for our inability look back further. So we don't know.

Some people seem impressed that at least we know our one universe exists, especially those eager to argue that it couldn't exist at all unless it had come from nothing-but-god. But the tangibility of our one universe is accounted for equally well if the big bang which begat this universe is a one time deal or is part of a wider system of such events.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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17-04-2017, 10:07 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2017 10:22 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Before the Big Bang
(17-04-2017 09:33 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  He also said it was God, because God was timeless, eternal, and two other things I can't remember.

Science doesn't say anything about it. They don't even get back as far as *a* Big Bang. The *bang* is the proposed inflationary epoch :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflationary_epoch

What he said is meaningless drivel. Gods can't *do* things, if they are timeless. Doing things puts an end to their eternal (timeless) past, and eternal future. Every concept theists invoke REQUIRES / ASSUMES some sort of temporal environment, (then they special plead it away). If there was a singularity, we know the known laws of science break down at singularities. There is no "before" (a temporal concept) space-time existed, and there is no "outside" anything if space is not assumed.

Quote:He says God is a transcendent, immaterial, timeless (he clarified this has meaning eternal), spaceless, eternal, uncaused all powerful entity that created the universe.

He can say anything he wants. He has no evidence for his string of assertions.

A meaningless string of incoherent words. A god that "exists" is REQUIRED to participate in only a sub-set of Reality. Non-existence is also concurrently a part of Reality also. Can a god create the very reality it MUST participate in, only partially ? No. Reality remains unexplained.

Quote:The thinking is that this entity can exist outside the universe,

Not thinking. Crap. "Outside" is a spatial concept. Space-time exists INSIDE the universe only, (as far as we know).

"Coming into being" is a temporal process. Incoherent drivel. "Coming into being" requires time, a priori.

All they can do, is keep their idiot mouths shut, and say nothing. Every time they do talk, out comes incoherent, contradictory nonsense.
Invoking "causation" is also incoherent. How did the *principle* of causation come into existence ? Did a deity *cause causation* if the principle was not already in place ?
How does it cause causation ? If it existed in Reality already, his god did not create Reality, and *found itself* already a part of (a larger) Reality. That's a stupid weak dime-store deity he's got there.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-04-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
Little monkeys on a tiny planet think they will understand the universe? Good luck with that.
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17-04-2017, 10:15 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
It could, however, also have been a universe creating pixie with exactly the same properties as this god of his. So what? This god-explanation explains nothing, and is indistinguishable from anything else i can make up myself.

The correct answer is: we.dont.fucking.know.yet.

Based on current scientific knowledge we can hypothesize about our universe being part of a multiverse, or coming from *nothing (because the total energy may be zero, and quantum fluctuations).

Making up bullshit (based on: nothing) about *entities* and defining them into existence is not a good idea...at least to me. Particularly, since without space and time, stuff like "existing" and "entity", "before" and "outside" and almost anything other property to define your bullshit into existence is actually meaningless drivel.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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17-04-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
(17-04-2017 10:13 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Little monkeys on a tiny planet think they will understand the universe? Good luck with that.

A universe which, at this point, is 95 % unknown, (Dark Energy and Dark Matter).
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-04-2017, 10:51 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
This is why I prefer to call it our reality, because it's an instant contradiction to talk about things (such as gods) that are not part of the universe. If in fact our reality is all there is, no harm done.

I previously made a video about all this "timeless" business:




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17-04-2017, 11:02 AM
RE: Before the Big Bang
What came before the big bang???


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