Being "Led" by God
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26-10-2012, 12:58 PM
RE: Being "Led" by God
(26-10-2012 12:05 PM)onedream Wrote:  Great, COMPELLING responses, guys and gals.

Here's where I am currently:

I'm absolutely convinced that the Bible is full of bullshit. Absolutely. Contradictions left and right, as well as physical impossibilities up the wazoo make me sure that the Bible is a storybook.

THAT I'm sure of. That's as far as I'm willing to concretely go at this point. Call it conditioning, fear, a desire to fully search things out...at this point I see that there's no way to take the Bible literally. But I'm not ready to say I believe with certainty there's not SOMETHING out there helping guide things.

And this is a HUGE step for me. 18 months ago I would have shuddered at the idea.

But it's like Lewis Black says: "I'd love to believe in Creation...but I have these things called 'thoughts.'"

Still searching...

Sounds to me like you are well on your way. This is an excellent first step.

Just curious, how did you come to realize the Bible was fallible? On your own? Help from anyone else? Perhaps the source that helped you question the validity of the Bible can also help you to question everything else?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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26-10-2012, 04:37 PM
RE: Being "Led" by God
(26-10-2012 12:37 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(26-10-2012 12:05 PM)onedream Wrote:  Great, COMPELLING responses, guys and gals.

Here's where I am currently:

I'm absolutely convinced that the Bible is full of bullshit. Absolutely. Contradictions left and right, as well as physical impossibilities up the wazoo make me sure that the Bible is a storybook.

THAT I'm sure of. That's as far as I'm willing to concretely go at this point. Call it conditioning, fear, a desire to fully search things out...at this point I see that there's no way to take the Bible literally. But I'm not ready to say I believe with certainty there's not SOMETHING out there helping guide things.

And this is a HUGE step for me. 18 months ago I would have shuddered at the idea.

But it's like Lewis Black says: "I'd love to believe in Creation...but I have these things called 'thoughts.'"

Still searching...

I found it interesting the way you carefully worded your response. You did not mention whether your still believe that part of the bible is real, or if it is based on fact. Would you clarify? If you still consider yourself a Christian, but reject taking the bible as literal then perhaps kingschosen could share his belief with you, as he adheres to well known scientific fact, but still considers himself a Christian. If you reject the idea of a Christian God (as almost all of us do) but still believe that God is a possibility there are tons of agnostics and atheists who will tell you that the Christian God is a logical impossibility (Carl Sagan was very good at explaining why). One of my favorite examples of disproving the Abrahamic God (Jewish, Christian & Muslim) is from Epicurus. He said

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Can't argue against that with logic. I hope you find some satisfaction in your search for truth. Remain skeptical, and question everything. Thumbsup


I still hold out some "hope" maybe...that the overall message that God might be trying to communicate through the Bible is true...I guess.

It's kind of like realizing that a monster you thought was outside your door your whole life isn't really there. You slowly open the door...you think "Maybe it's really there..." and you tentatively step out into the light.

I'm starting to open the door right now. And I'm wondering if there's a monster out there, event though I think he might not be.
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26-10-2012, 04:39 PM
RE: Being "Led" by God
(26-10-2012 12:46 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(26-10-2012 12:05 PM)onedream Wrote:  Great, COMPELLING responses, guys and gals.

Here's where I am currently:

I'm absolutely convinced that the Bible is full of bullshit. Absolutely. Contradictions left and right, as well as physical impossibilities up the wazoo make me sure that the Bible is a storybook.

THAT I'm sure of. That's as far as I'm willing to concretely go at this point. Call it conditioning, fear, a desire to fully search things out...at this point I see that there's no way to take the Bible literally. But I'm not ready to say I believe with certainty there's not SOMETHING out there helping guide things.

And this is a HUGE step for me. 18 months ago I would have shuddered at the idea.

But it's like Lewis Black says: "I'd love to believe in Creation...but I have these things called 'thoughts.'"

Still searching...

That's what I decided - a long time ago, when I was 10. The bible is a fairy tale. And if you read the first testament, it's more gruesome than Grimm's brother's tales. Which led to the realization that this god was not a very nice fellow, he loved killing people, children, entire cities and the entire world population at one point. Looking into it deeper since then, he was a war god. And a nasty, jealous, conceited wrathful fellow to boot.

He incorporates a lot of abhorrent things a decent human being would never even consider.

And that's when I decided it wasn't for me and filed the bible with my other old fairy tale books.

I haven't regretted since. My moral compass works a lot better than that of the characters in the bible, that I am sure of.

Yeah, I started reading the Bible with eyes wide open about a year ago. I was shocked at the genocide, rape, contradictions, & absolute evil nature of the god of the OT. Before, I had just dismissed it as "Maybe God knows something I don't."
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26-10-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: Being "Led" by God
(26-10-2012 12:53 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(26-10-2012 12:05 PM)onedream Wrote:  I'm absolutely convinced that the Bible is full of bullshit. Absolutely. Contradictions left and right, as well as physical impossibilities up the wazoo make me sure that the Bible is a storybook.

Remember, the only thing in this world that tells you there is a god is the bible, and as you say, it's just a BS storybook. Sure, people tell you about god, but they get all their info from the same BS storybook. And you think you know about god, but you get all your info from the same BS storybook or from those people reciting the BS storybook.

It all comes back to the BS storybook - without it, nobody would have ever heard of god.

Take away that BS storybook and there's no reason to believe in the mythology it teaches.

(26-10-2012 12:05 PM)onedream Wrote:  THAT I'm sure of. That's as far as I'm willing to concretely go at this point. Call it conditioning, fear, a desire to fully search things out...at this point I see that there's no way to take the Bible literally. But I'm not ready to say I believe with certainty there's not SOMETHING out there helping guide things.

Neither am I, nor are most atheists.

There is little certainty in this universe, but one thing that I am certain of: I'm certain that I don't know with any certainty how the universe got here, how life began, or exactly how it evolved into us.

I guess that's three things.

I won't tell you there is no god, or that there is definitely not SOMETHING out there helping to guide things. But I will tell you that there is not one shred of real evidence supporting such things. I will tell you that the bible is not evidence (which you already know). I will tell you that the people preaching stuff from the bible don't have one shred of actual evidence.

I will tell you that I withhold judgment about what's out there until some evidence can be presented to support it. Until then, I'm an atheist.

I won't tell you that you have to see things the way I do, but I will tell you that finding evidence first and THEN believing in what the evidence proves makes way more sense than doing it the other way around. But maybe that's just my opinion.


Well put regarding looking for evidence and THEN believing. It does make more sense. I can tell you that the main reason I have believed is that my mommy and daddy told me to. I did ZERO research. I read the Bible for decades from a strictly devotional bent. And I believed without any rational thought about it.

Now that I'm thinking and researching, I'm understanding WHY I believed without evidence. It's like Dawkins says...something to the effect of : The infant mind is such that it accepts instruction without questioning. It does this because it's a matter of survival. If it questioned and tested for itself from day one, it would be dead. It needs to accept instruction from it's parents until it has it's bearings. Then it can teach it's own children.
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