Being fired for my beliefs
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17-09-2012, 01:41 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
You forgot, he's in Georgia. It would probably go more like this:


Judge: Why did they fire you?
Ravnwolf: I don't know.
Judge: They didn't tell you?
Ravnwolf: All they told me was "you know what you did".
Judge: Well do you?
Ravnwolf: The only thing I did was post about atheism on a website.
Judge: You could have saved us all a bunch time if you would have mentioned you were an immoral tool of Satan right from the start. I hereby find the employer innocent of discrimination.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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17-09-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
Statutory exceptions to "at will" employment doctrine…

Not following own termination procedures – often, the employee handbook or company policy outlines a procedure that must be followed before an employee is terminated. If the employer fires an employee without following this procedure, the employee may have a claim for wrongful termination.

In addition to being fired based on status in a protected class (race, religion, gender, etc.), employers are not allowed to retaliate against any protected action. "Protected actions" include suing for wrongful termination, testifying as a witness in a wrongful termination case, or even opposing what they believe (whether they can prove it or not) to be wrongful discrimination. In the recent federal case of Ross v. Vanguard, Raymond Ross successfully sued his employer for firing him due to his allegations of racial discrimination.
***

While looking for gainful employment, do yourself a favor and contact the ACLU for advice and at least a lawyer reference. It's a positive step toward making things change. Could be a great way to shore up that personal dignity and help out the next guy. Thumbsup

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17-09-2012, 05:55 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
(17-09-2012 01:41 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  You forgot, he's in Georgia. It would probably go more like this:


Judge: Why did they fire you?
Ravnwolf: I don't know.
Judge: They didn't tell you?
Ravnwolf: All they told me was "you know what you did".
Judge: Well do you?
Ravnwolf: The only thing I did was post about atheism on a website.
Judge: You could have saved us all a bunch time if you would have mentioned you were an immoral tool of Satan right from the start. I hereby find the employer innocent of discrimination.

And then they'd make him pay the employer's lawyer fees and court costs.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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17-09-2012, 06:27 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
I'll bring the gas, you bring the matches.

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17-09-2012, 07:40 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
I saw this blog yeasteday, and I just didn't know what to say other than to express my sympathies.

Today, however . . .
I got to work this evening and my manager wanted me to pray with her (I live in bible belt Bubba Ville) blindly believing (without any assumption, assumption takes some thought) that I believed exactly as she does. Honestly, too many people need more life experiences. I informed her that I was not a theist. I thought I owed it to myself as well as to her. Her eyes widened, really widened, and I thought AH-OOH! I have not been at this job verry long. I do know that I have never once led anyone here to make such a terrible mistake. How dare she make such a terrible mistake.

If I were fired for my belief, I believe that my manager would feel perfectly comfortable saying so, on paper.

I
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17-09-2012, 07:47 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
(17-09-2012 07:40 PM)depat Wrote:  I saw this blog yeasteday, and I just didn't know what to say other than to express my sympathies.

Today, however . . .
I got to work this evening and my manager wanted me to pray with her (I live in bible belt Bubba Ville) blindly believing (without any assumption, assumption takes some thought) that I believed exactly as she does. Honestly, too many people need more life experiences. I informed her that I was not a theist. I thought I owed it to myself as well as to her. Her eyes widened, really widened, and I thought AH-OOH! I have not been at this job verry long. I do know that I have never once led anyone here to make such a terrible mistake. How dare she make such a terrible mistake.

If I were fired for my belief, I believe that my manager would feel perfectly comfortable saying so, on paper.

I

Get it in writing if you can. Thumbsup $$$

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-09-2012, 09:41 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs

I also live in an at-will state, and I can say that many of the things stated on this forum ring true even in a state with that kind of approach to employment.

It is curious they wanted their handbook back. Perhaps they did not want you to refer to it to go after them legally afterward, since not following their own procedures would all on it's own win your case for wrongful termination. An employee handbook is an odd thing to ask to return--what, was the paper they printed it on going to ruin their finances or something if they had to print one for your replacement?

If the company did not follow their own rules for termination, then a clearly wrongful termination lends credibility to potential claims of discrimination based on religion. That's where punitive damages (due to acting with particular malice) can rack up.

I'm not a lawyer, nor from your state. That is why you should follow others' advice to find a lawyer from your state. The suggestion to consult the Freedom from Religion Foundation or the ACLU are good ones to find discrete referrals. If I fired an employee in the manner you were fired, and that employee filed suit, I would be worried about the future of my company. I can't speak for Georgia, but I'd be scared to death that someone like you would show up in court to sue me under the circumstances you describe.

If you live in such a small community, are there really many comparable opportunities for you to pursue? If not, then I think your former employer put you in a position where you have no choice but to sue--so you can GTFO of there and set yourself up in a new community where there are opportunities for someone with your experience. However be prepared to have a hard time finding any executive type job unless you find a company politically sensitive to atheists and not afraid you will sue them too. That is why if you do sue, you go for broke--to compensate you for the wrongful damage they have done to your career. And they have already done that even without your suing them, haven't they?
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17-09-2012, 09:50 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
While you may not be able to get back at them legally for what they did, you can probably get unemployment benefits. I'm not sure, but I think the company has to pay into that? If that's true, then they're still having to pay for what they did to you, even if it's not as much punishment as they deserve.
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18-09-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
(17-09-2012 07:40 PM)depat Wrote:  I saw this blog yeasteday, and I just didn't know what to say other than to express my sympathies.

Today, however . . .
I got to work this evening and my manager wanted me to pray with her (I live in bible belt Bubba Ville) blindly believing (without any assumption, assumption takes some thought) that I believed exactly as she does. Honestly, too many people need more life experiences. I informed her that I was not a theist. I thought I owed it to myself as well as to her. Her eyes widened, really widened, and I thought AH-OOH! I have not been at this job verry long. I do know that I have never once led anyone here to make such a terrible mistake. How dare she make such a terrible mistake.

If I were fired for my belief, I believe that my manager would feel perfectly comfortable saying so, on paper.

I
She wanted you to pray on the job? Unbelievable. I wonder how paying both of you for praying would benefit the company... Consider Yet another harm imposed by religion. Rolleyes

I hope she doesn't fire you. I would advise getting familiar with the handbook while you still can and, if there is anything in there about how the company requires a terminated employee to be informed, take special note of it and use it if the time comes.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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18-09-2012, 02:42 PM
RE: Being fired for my beliefs
(17-09-2012 09:41 PM)BryanS Wrote:  It is curious they wanted their handbook back. Perhaps they did not want you to refer to it to go after them legally afterward, since not following their own procedures would all on it's own win your case for wrongful termination. An employee handbook is an odd thing to ask to return--what, was the paper they printed it on going to ruin their finances or something if they had to print one for your replacement?

Paranoid doesn't even begin to describe the owner of the company. If he thinks anyone is telling anything about how the company runs, etc. he'll have a fit. Doesn't matter how small the detail is.

He and his wife are all about appearances and they act like they care about their employees, but they really don't. As evidenced by his actions towards me. Hell, if it had been job performance or something else that I had done that he didn't like, he could have had the common courtesy to talk to me about it.

Oh well, I'm thinking seriously about pursuing legal action. I'm just afraid of what could happen if it all turned very sour on me. I don't want to bring any further bad crap down on my family.
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