Being gay, genetics?
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03-06-2011, 05:44 AM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
There are studies that correlate the environment of the mother in regards to deviation from the fake dichotomy of male and female. In a question like this you'd be better off using queer (to suggest everyone) then gay. Gender doesn't have a dichotomy but westerners like to prescribe one to it. Read up on things like the many tribes in the US who have what is now in English termed two-spirit individuals. Or Mexico, or India, or most anywhere. Those that would be called gender deviants within western culture often provide very important roles within other cultural systems. Though many have been lost due to western expansion.

There are good things about the variance and fluidity of gender. The younger generations are beginning to understand this as queer theory becomes promoted within western society. Gay is a rigid term as you almost seem to be suggesting you'll see all their actions that way. We have a use for the word gay, but in your question it sounds more offensive. There is nothing that separates a gay person from a heterosexual person except that they won't be likely to have sex. The fluidity of gender should not be seen as a divergence in a species. Many groups of animals experience this fluid gender. This is just the way that gender actually works in practice.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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03-06-2011, 05:59 AM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
(03-06-2011 05:41 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  When we argue disability its possibly just semantics. But arguing genetics assumes it could be passed on to an offspring rather than it was just a mistake that the hypothalamus didn't grow to it's full size. So then it just comes down to what we define as a disability.
I understand. But it's not about the semantics, its about the diplomacy.

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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03-06-2011, 06:06 AM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
There is no genetic fear of non procreative humans becoming the majority. That is just a silly idea in and of itself. Gender is seen to be more something that happens in eutero than something static and definite at conception. The gay explosion is a mixture of a large population, reduction of the hetero-normative demand, and a relief from pressure from those who were afraid to discuss it. Gay people do not tend to have gay children. They have children with about the same likeliness. This specific trait is one linked to the mother's behavior while pregnant which means that rather than being imprinted within the chromosomes it gets written in as the baby forms.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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03-06-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Rainbow RE: Being gay, genetics?
(03-06-2011 05:59 AM)The_observer Wrote:  
(03-06-2011 05:41 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  When we argue disability its possibly just semantics. But arguing genetics assumes it could be passed on to an offspring rather than it was just a mistake that the hypothalamus didn't grow to it's full size. So then it just comes down to what we define as a disability.
I understand. But it's not about the semantics, its about the diplomacy.
I think we insult ourselves making excuses to abide or tolerate an original post from someone who, when they're old enough to join this forum, are then presumed to be old enough to communicate their meaning clearly.

Ergo, I don't think saying it's a matter of diplomacy, which is one obvious factor wherein one is able to take umbrage with the OP, is the pardon needed to make this palatable. I think NSV knows exactly what they're saying, means exactly what they're implying, and intend to get away with it by asking if we agree.

Furthermore, their WHO definition of "Disability" is incomplete. The full text at the WHO website reads as follows: Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action; while a participation restriction is a problem experienced by an individual in involvement in life situations.

Thus disability is a complex phenomenon, reflecting an interaction between features of a person’s body and features of the society in which he or she lives.)





the World Health Organization (WHO) removed homosexuality from the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) as a mental disorder May 17 1990!
This occurred after the World Health Organization endorsed an intention to remove homosexuality from a list of mental disorders in its tenth review of disease definitions.

Medical Dictionary Definition(s)

What one may infer Vacuous is attempting to do, is address something that is an issue for themselves personally.

A conclusion easily arrived at because it was they who chose to cite a WHO definition for "Disability" as it relates to what they're implying is the disease of homosexuality. Which, for 21 years , not even the WHO accepts is a claim bearing any merit.
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03-06-2011, 04:52 PM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
If anyone is confused, I am discussing gender because the OP is more asking about gender than just someone being gay from what I can tell. His statements just didn't seem confined to sexual bigotry.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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03-06-2011, 05:39 PM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
Let me reassert what I am asking. I am just looking for information on what studies can prove that being gay is genetics or a disability.

The best I have found is multiple studies showing that male pheromones will stimulate the Hypothalamus in male homosexual brains and female pheromones will stimulate the Hypothalamus in homosexual female brains. There is also a size difference of the Hypothalamus in heterosexual men vs homosexual men.
PubMed
PubMed

I have no particular stance, I do not care if someone is gay or not it is their business not mine. I am not hear to ask about sexual dimorphism.

As for grassy I think you need to stop posting in a thread just to throw a cheap shot at someone mixed with a few words from your big boy thesaurus. So either add something to my topic or hush. Also to address your definition linked.

disability /dis·a·bil·i·ty/ (dis″ah-bil´it-e)
1. inability to function normally, physically or mentally; incapacity.
2. anything that causes disability.
3. as defined by the federal government: “inability to engage in any substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment which can be expected to last or has lasted for a continuous period of not less than 12 months.”


You are simply being biased in my personal opinion in reading this definition how you want to. At this point we have to argue what is functioning normally and if it is impairing them to engage in a gainful activity. You I THINK , please correct me if I am wrong, are trying to define normal in your own humanitarian way. I am basing this on the grounds of Natural selection and being an animal whose purpose is to replicate DNA. In this light being born with altered brains could put this person at a disadvantage.

I am not trying to coat this with sugar, I am merely asking from a non biased position is there something wrong with a person and is there evidence to show it.
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03-06-2011, 07:10 PM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
"In this light being born with altered brains could put this person at a disadvantage."

But thats wrong, when you consider homosexuality. Remember, you are still benefiting your own genes if you help raise your siblings offspring. And if a different allele causes females to have higher fecundity at the cost of close male relatives not breeding, that still benefits the genes of the females and the males. Natural selection would put that at an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Refer to my previous post for the PubMed reference.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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03-06-2011, 07:43 PM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
(03-06-2011 07:10 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  "In this light being born with altered brains could put this person at a disadvantage."

But thats wrong, when you consider homosexuality. Remember, you are still benefiting your own genes if you help raise your siblings offspring. And if a different allele causes females to have higher fecundity at the cost of close male relatives not breeding, that still benefits the genes of the females and the males. Natural selection would put that at an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Refer to my previous post for the PubMed reference.


If the homosexual male whom might have a mutation that could possible patch the missing link to irreducible complexity in their species, I do not see how that is beneficial to your own genes. Or if you was to be stronger/faster/smarter than your siblings that you help raise.
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03-06-2011, 07:49 PM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
So I don't have any evidence on this topic but I personally believe you can't really help how you were born, such as if your hand is tiny or you have both a penis and a vagina, it just happens that way because of something genetic having happened one way instead of another, so I'm not a big fan of the word disability but I understand what it actually means and thus find no offence in it's use here. I think that being attracted to the same sex physically is something you are born with, but I also think that given certain events within your life your perception can radically change and that can also effect who you are attracted to, making it also a possible mental disorder. I mean that in strictly the nicest way possible. I believe it's a disorder that has no victims and it is only the business of those that are inflicted with it... wow no matter how you say this stuff it just sounds offensive... just to clarify I'm not homophobic or anything at all.... even though it sounds like it lol... really I'm not I promise. Heart
Plus like I said I have no evidence whatsoever.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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03-06-2011, 08:16 PM
RE: Being gay, genetics?
(03-06-2011 07:49 PM)lucradis Wrote:  So I don't have any evidence on this topic but I personally believe you can't really help how you were born, such as if your hand is tiny or you have both a penis and a vagina, it just happens that way because of something genetic having happened one way instead of another, so I'm not a big fan of the word disability but I understand what it actually means and thus find no offence in it's use here. I think that being attracted to the same sex physically is something you are born with, but I also think that given certain events within your life your perception can radically change and that can also effect who you are attracted to, making it also a possible mental disorder. I mean that in strictly the nicest way possible. I believe it's a disorder that has no victims and it is only the business of those that are inflicted with it... wow no matter how you say this stuff it just sounds offensive... just to clarify I'm not homophobic or anything at all.... even though it sounds like it lol... really I'm not I promise. Heart
Plus like I said I have no evidence whatsoever.


It only sounds offensive to who lets it. Once medicine/science reaches a certain point I do believe you will be able to prevent this disability.
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