Being irrational
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11-09-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: Being irrational
Hug

I don't think it's irrational.

More Hug


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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11-09-2014, 08:38 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2014 09:21 AM by Hobbitgirl.)
RE: Being irrational
I dont think you're being irrational at all. I never understood that about people when they say "its just a body" Well that body belonged to someone you cared about deeply. I think its only natural you expect some respect to be paid. Obviously I realise the dead person isnt going to care what you do to it. But the people who are still alive certainly do.
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11-09-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: Being irrational
Oh Dom, it makes perfect sense how you felt when the police were thereā€¦ and what a beautiful love story you had and still have with your husband.

God definitely explains people themselves, God is a human ego.

Big Hug for you.
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11-09-2014, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2014 02:15 PM by Dom.)
RE: Being irrational
Ok then, I give you normal - but it's still irrational, given we had discussed it, he had said he couldn't care less what happened to his body, and I feel the same.

Also, apparently it is common practice that the cops go into that bedroom and close the door behind them - they do have to look him over to see if there was foul play and I guess they don't want you to hear what they say.

They were pretty surprised when I forbid it... I guess they are also not used to people forbidding them things Smile

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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11-09-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Being irrational
(11-09-2014 06:46 AM)Dom Wrote:  ---
Yes, I can see how people insert a god to cover the inexplicable actions you take when under lots of stress. Also, I see why people believe in an afterlife - following the death I had the distinct feeling that he was still there. This wears off gradually.
---

This is very interesting to me. I know it in no way compares to the loss of a loved one but, I felt somewhat similar physical sensations when a massive tree outside my bedroom window was cut down.

Over many years, this close in proximity, particular tree had noticeably effected sound, light, the space around it, the space between my house and the tree, the space between my house and the neighbor's house. Although, I was in no way emotionally attached to it, this tree was very much a presence physically and therefore psychologically. I felt it's existence.

When it was suddenly gone, it's absence was acutely palpable. It's been gone several years now, but I still glance outside my window... I don't know if I'm thinking it might suddenly be there again...? Or maybe I'm just trying to remember what things were like when it was there...? Would things be different if it was there... would I be different? The tree's absence is a signal to a part of me; something once existed and I existed differently because of it. I am changed.

The apprehension I've felt about this tree's absence might seem odd but I consider it part of being human and being attuned to spacial relationships. I think life has very much to do with overall pattern perception both emotional and physical. I think the human mind and indeed our entire being, needs time to adjust to any new or different, and especially to a very bluntly established life pattern. The sudden appearance of a void is pretty blunt.
***

The ordeal of illness you shared with your man was intense, Dom and even before the illness, your life together was intricately entwined. To have all of it so suddenly gone creates a tremendous void and there should be no rush to separate from that void, either emotionally or physically. To do so before you are ready or even able, would be unhealthy and could even contribute to a sense of denial.

Now... denial would be irrational. It is an inability to recognize a particular portion of reality. In this situation it might be the equivalent of being required to deny that you've lived several years of your life, when you know for a fact that you have. Denial is the complete acceptance of an illusion. That is irrational.
***

Death can actually seem like a personal affront sometimes ... or maybe that's just me; I usually handle it with some healthy anger, aimed at no one. Nothing elaborate; I get a bit loud ... clean things a bit more vigorously ... build an unnecessary structure in my back yard... Dodgy and/or demolish an unnecessary structure in my back yard.

I don't think any stage of the grieving process is unhealthy and I think to not go through any of it is to deny a part of yourself.

Hug

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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11-09-2014, 02:26 PM
RE: Being irrational
(11-09-2014 02:05 PM)kim Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 06:46 AM)Dom Wrote:  ---
Yes, I can see how people insert a god to cover the inexplicable actions you take when under lots of stress. Also, I see why people believe in an afterlife - following the death I had the distinct feeling that he was still there. This wears off gradually.
---

This is very interesting to me. I know it in no way compares to the loss of a loved one but, I felt somewhat similar physical sensations when a massive tree outside my bedroom window was cut down.

Over many years, this close in proximity, particular tree had noticeably effected sound, light, the space around it, the space between my house and the tree, the space between my house and the neighbor's house. Although, I was in no way emotionally attached to it, this tree was very much a presence physically and therefore psychologically. I felt it's existence.

When it was suddenly gone, it's absence was acutely palpable. It's been gone several years now, but I still glance outside my window... I don't know if I'm thinking it might suddenly be there again...? Or maybe I'm just trying to remember what things were like when it was there...? Would things be different if it was there... would I be different? The tree's absence is a signal to a part of me; something once existed and I existed differently because of it. I am changed.

The apprehension I've felt about this tree's absence might seem odd but I consider it part of being human and being attuned to spacial relationships. I think life has very much to do with overall pattern perception both emotional and physical. I think the human mind and indeed our entire being, needs time to adjust to any new or different, and especially to a very bluntly established life pattern. The sudden appearance of a void is pretty blunt.
***

The ordeal of illness you shared with your man was intense, Dom and even before the illness, your life together was intricately entwined. To have all of it so suddenly gone creates a tremendous void and there should be no rush to separate from that void, either emotionally or physically. To do so before you are ready or even able, would be unhealthy and could even contribute to a sense of denial.

Now... denial would be irrational. It is an inability to recognize a particular portion of reality. In this situation it might be the equivalent of being required to deny that you've lived several years of your life, when you know for a fact that you have. Denial is the complete acceptance of an illusion. That is irrational.
***

Death can actually seem like a personal affront sometimes ... or maybe that's just me; I usually handle it with some healthy anger, aimed at no one. Nothing elaborate; I get a bit loud ... clean things a bit more vigorously ... build an unnecessary structure in my back yard... Dodgy and/or demolish an unnecessary structure in my back yard.

I don't think any stage of the grieving process is unhealthy and I think to not go through any of it is to deny a part of yourself.

Hug

Oh, grieving is all good, and while most people experience the same aspects of it, they go through it in a different sequence. It's just a taboo to talk about it - if you are not grieving and you talk about it to one who is, you likely trigger them and have a tearful mess going on. But a lot of people go to grieving groups where all participants share it and tearful messes are normal. I had a good friend who lost her husband to cancer three months before me, and we shared all the troubles while the guys were sick and then the grieving too.

The thing about the palpable presence - it is universal when people grieve. I haven't talked to one person who didn't say so, and it is also written about. Many even feel a physical pain - I did, too.

Probably it's related to the "phantom limb", as in if you lose a leg, you can still feel it there...

I am also not surprised at the void that tree left behind...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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11-09-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Being irrational
(11-09-2014 02:26 PM)Dom Wrote:  Probably it's related to the "phantom limb", as in if you lose a leg, you can still feel it there...

That's the best description I've ever heard. I think it's apt.

Hug


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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11-09-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Being irrational
(11-09-2014 06:46 AM)Dom Wrote:  Also, I see why people believe in an afterlife - following the death I had the distinct feeling that he was still there. This wears off gradually.
Dom, I think it's all perfectly normal. When you come right down to it, we only know and experience other people through our perceptions. We see them, hear them, touch them, share things with them, etc. and all of this gets processed by our brain, internalized, and stored in our memories. The ones closest to us like your husband are a part of our every day lives and so this perception/internalizing process goes on continually throughout the years. In this way, they truly become a part of us. And when they are gone, that part that is internalized is still there. I think that may be one reason you got the feeling like he was still there for awhile. In a sense, he still was and even still is there. Over time, the feeling fades because the daily additional processing is no longer present and is replaced by processing other things. But it never goes away completely.

Regarding the police and being uncomfortable with them closing the door, I would have been too. First of all, I would be uncomfortable with any stranger in my house going into a room and closing the door. But, with your husband, even though he had died, his body was all that was still tangible that you had left of him. I think it's quite natural to have still cared what happened to him and for that to be of sufficient importance to leave you uncomfortable about not being able to see what strangers would be doing with him.

As for "irrational", I doubt even the most rational among us can truthfully say he/she never has an irrational moment here or there. We are emotional beings and that's cause enough for some irrational moments.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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11-09-2014, 05:35 PM
RE: Being irrational
(11-09-2014 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ok then, I give you normal - but it's still irrational, given we had discussed it, he had said he couldn't care less what happened to his body, and I feel the same.

Also, apparently it is common practice that the cops go into that bedroom and close the door behind them - they do have to look him over to see if there was foul play and I guess they don't want you to hear what they say.

They were pretty surprised when I forbid it... I guess they are also not used to people forbidding them things Smile

It sounds to me like he had made peace with what was coming.

You were so busy with taking care of your husband and having to advocate for him that you probably didn't have time to be ready and at peace with what was coming. It makes perfect sense to me and I don't see it as irrational at all.

During the time that someone is taking care of a loved one at the end of their life, that caregiver is on high alert...you run on adrenalin. When your husband died your adrenalin and all stress in your mind and body didn't cease to exist. The body and the mind takes time to wind back down. You were still in 'full on' mode when the police arrived.

Be gentle with yourself.

Heart

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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11-09-2014, 06:07 PM
RE: Being irrational
Well, I sure did know what was coming, it took at least a week after we were both 100% sure that the dying process had started. He then kept describing to me what was happening to him until he went into a sort of coma, which he announced was happening. Then it was still almost two days...

It doesn't really matter how prepared you are, but it does help if the other person is at peace with it.

I was also extremely sleep deprived...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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