Being progressive and policing what people say.
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24-08-2015, 08:02 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
Well first off you're on tumblr which is jokingly mocked and known for being a place were people intentionally take things to the extreme degree to complain about them in one sling of a way.

I don't every situation is gonna call for respect or matter if respect is within the situation or not, you'll have to see the case you've fallen into to judge if it will happen for you or not. The idea of respect in that way kinda isn't a trait that is actually a liberal idea. It's more of a value liberals won't have because it's seen as something not deserved without a need to earn it.

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24-08-2015, 08:02 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(23-08-2015 10:02 PM)FreeThinker1994 Wrote:  2. Someone on tumblr asked me how I felt about legalized prostitution, and I responded with the fact that it's such a complicated issue. I cited a documentary by VICE about Germany's very liberal prostitution laws, and how it's actually benefitted people who engage in sex slavery and human trafficking. I also said how I don't find prostitution objectively wrong.

Boy, was I in hot water.

One of the replies told me how arrogant I was, how I didn't know what I was talking about, and that "prostitute" is a slur. It was suggested that I speak to sex workers before talking about issues that effect them.

Back story: I have spoken to and known sex workers, as well as sex therapists who all are comfortable with the term "prostitute" and "prostitution", and are working to break the stigma around it.

I don't understand. I'm just being honest about how I feel and think, and I want to learn. But people are so mean when it comes to this stuff, policing what I say. I get this from my mother at home, too. She gets deeply offended over things I have no idea she finds offensive (and how can I know if she doesn't tell me?!)

I mean, I'm gay, but i don't freak out when I hear people say how evil we "fags" are. I'm of Ukrainian descent, but I don't get mad and storm off when someone (usually Russian) doesn't like Ukrainians. I'm an atheist, but I listen to religious people - even the ones who think I'm the most evil thing on the planet.

I want to hear what people think and learn about who they are, even if it doesn't fit my narrative of a perfect human being. It comes down to respect, you know?

People just get so offended and mad at me. I thought being liberal was looking at things objectively and being courageous, not freaking out every time someone sneezes wrong.

I'm finding this in many liberal circles, and it drives me crazy. What are your thoughts on things like this?

Get off Tumblr. It's just like 4chan only with usernames and less racial slurs.

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24-08-2015, 08:10 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(24-08-2015 07:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 07:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also, I am a dick.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-08-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(24-08-2015 08:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 07:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: 1390269212824.png]

I am prevented by the Law Tongue




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24-08-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
I definitely lean left myself on most social issues, domestic policy issues, foreign policy issues, and DEFINITELY economic issues. That said one of the ideas/trends I find most troubling and difficult to connect with among my fellow Liberals is this whole thought police-style language obsession. I appreciate that it's worth some consideration to be deliberate with words to minimize the effects of bringing up painful histories and cultural hardships experienced by people of varied races, ethnicities, genders, etc. It's not as if I want to be insensitive or make things difficult for anyone, but I also think this obsession with not offending or hurting people's feelings is juvenile and in many cases an impediment to actual progress on social issues like transphobia, marriage equality, etc. I think we alienate people who might otherwise be undertaking some thoughtful introspection on their own biases by presenting ourselves as thought-police and insisting on strict adherence to some perfectly-polished verbiage. As if the right pronouns will erase all the pain and discrimination people have experienced.
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24-08-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(23-08-2015 10:02 PM)FreeThinker1994 Wrote:  People just get so offended and mad at me. I thought being liberal was looking at things objectively and being courageous, not freaking out every time someone sneezes wrong.

I'm finding this in many liberal circles, and it drives me crazy. What are your thoughts on things like this?

Nope. It's the sneezing thing. Tongue

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Seriously though, it sounds like they overreacted to me. Based on your pronoun choice, you're obviously trying to be respectful while acknowledging your personal hangups. There's a world of difference between that and the way Fox News talked about Caitlyn Jenner.

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24-08-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
In my "past life", I frequently engaged with people on the "far left" on those issues (though I am about as liberal as it is possible for a lifelong Southerner to be), and was called so many names in return I couldn't even begin to count.

One of my favorite such discussions was when I was talking to a lesbian about the idea of a gay gene, and that there is no support for an actual "gene that causes gayness", that instead it was a developmental disorder in which the "normal" polarity-switch process of becoming heterosexual through the course of puberty is not fully (or not at all) expressed. (I consider it perfectly natural that this should occur in a given percent of cases, and I made this clear.) I even pointed out that it is my opinion that having a percent of the population be homosexual or bisexual is beneficial to small tribes, and may have had an evolutionarily positive effect.

But she lit into me for being "homophobic" because I dared to say that a sexually reproducing species "normally" is heterosexual, claiming that I was implying they were freaks.

I tried to explain that I have several DNA abnormalities, as do all people on earth, but this only made it worse. There was nothing I could say at that point. It wasn't about going with the science, it was about social dogma as strong as any religious dogma. If she had thought about it, she would realize that a huge percent of my friends are LGBT, that I support LGBT causes with my time, voice, money, and energy, and that I was in no way a person who would attack them.

I don't think the problem is liberalism, so much as an emotional reaction to considering yourself in a position that must be defended At All Costs, where anyone who expresses something that even sounds like The Voice of the Oppressor™ is a trigger for the vocal defenders to counterattack. And I agree it is counterproductive, but I hardly think it represents liberal thought in general. Citing to a few (bad) examples as indicative of the larger population is something bigots do, so as much as the "thought police" irk me, it irks me more when I hear people saying it is a liberalism thing.

As we have noted many time, the Christian right has many, many such "thought police" activists on their side, as well. Arguably, a lot more of it than is on the left. Only a huge degree of propaganda has convinced us that it's a liberal "thing".

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24-08-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(24-08-2015 11:53 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  In my "past life", I frequently engaged with people on the "far left" on those issues (though I am about as liberal as it is possible for a lifelong Southerner to be), and was called so many names in return I couldn't even begin to count.

One of my favorite such discussions was when I was talking to a lesbian about the idea of a gay gene, and that there is no support for an actual "gene that causes gayness", that instead it was a developmental disorder in which the "normal" polarity-switch process of becoming heterosexual through the course of puberty is not fully (or not at all) expressed. (I consider it perfectly natural that this should occur in a given percent of cases, and I made this clear.) I even pointed out that it is my opinion that having a percent of the population be homosexual or bisexual is beneficial to small tribes, and may have had an evolutionarily positive effect.

But she lit into me for being "homophobic" because I dared to say that a sexually reproducing species "normally" is heterosexual, claiming that I was implying they were freaks.

I tried to explain that I have several DNA abnormalities, as do all people on earth, but this only made it worse. There was nothing I could say at that point. It wasn't about going with the science, it was about social dogma as strong as any religious dogma. If she had thought about it, she would realize that a huge percent of my friends are LGBT, that I support LGBT causes with my time, voice, money, and energy, and that I was in no way a person who would attack them.

I don't think the problem is liberalism, so much as an emotional reaction to considering yourself in a position that must be defended At All Costs, where anyone who expresses something that even sounds like The Voice of the Oppressor™ is a trigger for the vocal defenders to counterattack. And I agree it is counterproductive, but I hardly think it represents liberal thought in general. Citing to a few (bad) examples as indicative of the larger population is something bigots do, so as much as the "thought police" irk me, it irks me more when I hear people saying it is a liberalism thing.

As we have noted many time, the Christian right has many, many such "thought police" activists on their side, as well. Arguably, a lot more of it than is on the left. Only a huge degree of propaganda has convinced us that it's a liberal "thing".

Well said. I started to try to write up something like this but it turned into a rant that sounded more like "Liberals do it, Conservatives do it too. You're all a bunch of assholes".

On the left, I run into this crap a lot when talking about feminism, LGBT, or guns. Someone will get butthurt because I bring up something they don't agree 100% with, so I'm OBVIOUSLY a woman hating, homophobic, trigger happy rambo. (no, seriously, someone on this very board called me that last bit because I've used a gun defensively)

On the right, well, I'm sure no one here will be surprised that the moment I bring up ANYTHING they don't like, I'm persecuting all of christianity. They're just as guilty of jumping to conclusions about what YOU ACTUALLY REALLY MEAN by that statement.

Ok, so I started to rant again. Fuck it, I'm a very angry person right now. This really boils down to a really fucking simple concept that I've been railing on for a bit now.


STOP FUCKING ASSUMING YOU KNOW WHAT THE OTHER PERSON IS THINKING!

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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24-08-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(24-08-2015 11:53 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I don't think the problem is liberalism, so much as an emotional reaction to considering yourself in a position that must be defended At All Costs, where anyone who expresses something that even sounds like The Voice of the Oppressor™ is a trigger for the vocal defenders to counterattack. And I agree it is counterproductive, but I hardly think it represents liberal thought in general. Citing to a few (bad) examples as indicative of the larger population is something bigots do, so as much as the "thought police" irk me, it irks me more when I hear people saying it is a liberalism thing.

As we have noted many time, the Christian right has many, many such "thought police" activists on their side, as well. Arguably, a lot more of it than is on the left. Only a huge degree of propaganda has convinced us that it's a liberal "thing".

Oh I agree that the Right is at least as guilty of thought-policing as the Left or worse; take that old chestnut of the phrase "Happy Holidays" being interpreted as a "War on Christmas," for example. It doesn't irk me quite as much with the Right since I don't agree with the vast majority of their views anyway. The reason I find this strict verbiage so troubling on the Left is I think they're putting people off who might otherwise eventually come around to understanding these evolving societal concepts. It often times seems they would rather people get their terminology correct, even with hate in their hearts, than have people actually side with them ideologically but use inappropriate words. They're putting the thesaurus before the horse, so to speak.
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24-08-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: Being progressive and policing what people say.
(24-08-2015 01:15 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  They're putting the thesaurus before the horse, so to speak.

Awesome. Laugh out load

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