Belief.....extent of control.
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03-09-2011, 07:31 AM
Belief.....extent of control.
Beliefs.........the things that shape the very world that we see.

I think it is a part of learning that we evolve our way of thinking over time.....for me it is this "independent" learning that has made me an atheist to what religions portray as "god".

Through my life I have come to many realisations......and I look forward to many more lol. I think the biggest one to start the whole ball rolling though was the beggining of my look into "conspiracy" theorys 5 years ago. Now I dont want to go into the specifics of this nor discuss the subject really........not here anyway.

As soon as I "opened my mind" and started critically looking at myself I noticed a few things about myself I hadnt before......the first being that I was racist and I had no actual real reason to be.......I had been taught to hate. This was upsetting because thats not how I see myself as being, yet I do it.

I was unconciously living my life in a way I didnt deem as acceptable........which to me shows the extent I have been influenced and it opened the flood gates to me looking into other aspects of my life.

I dont think many people question what it is about them that makes them who they are, what makes them "tick" and for what reasons.

Obv religion is a heavy influencing aspect of peoples life but religion, although still popular is slowly dying out......which leads me to also ponder how "moral responsibilitys" are pushed onto atheists......thats where the "conspiracy" possibilities come into play lol.

So I was wondering if anybody else had anything they would like to share......any realisations they have made about life or themselves which they think doesnt match how they percieved themselves.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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03-09-2011, 08:53 AM
 
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
(03-09-2011 07:31 AM)bemore Wrote:  So I was wondering if anybody else had anything they would like to share......any realisations they have made about life or themselves which they think doesnt match how they percieved themselves.

Very good thread, bemore.

At 18 I read my first Aldous Huxley book and he made merciless fun of me. I realized, first time, that I did a lot of role-playing, pretending, trying to appear other than I was.

I felt humiliated and decided that I would never do it again.

At 27 I read my first Ayn Rand book and I instantly embraced the foundation of her social philosophy: "Nobody has the right to initiate force against another human being".

I became a libertarian conservative (partly as a backlash against my past in a communist dictatorship). Not long after I started discovering huge holes and contradictions in her philosophy (never dealing with fraud: the main tool of theft in capitalism)

Then I met my wife and she started educating me (I was a techie, totally ignorant of history, sociology, political science, philosophy).

I became a socialist.

In my fifties I realized that there is something drastically wrong with the world, so I started educating myself in economics. It took 2 years to get to the bottom of that crime novel and now I can see clearly what is going on. Chomsky was a great help in getting started and once I was rolling there was no stopping me.

Now I am an anarchist with socialist sympathies.

There was a price to pay, though: I was a lot happier person in my ignorance, as far as my relationship with humanity is concerned.
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03-09-2011, 11:01 AM
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
(03-09-2011 08:53 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(03-09-2011 07:31 AM)bemore Wrote:  So I was wondering if anybody else had anything they would like to share......any realisations they have made about life or themselves which they think doesnt match how they percieved themselves.

Very good thread, bemore.

At 18 I read my first Aldous Huxley book and he made merciless fun of me. I realized, first time, that I did a lot of role-playing, pretending, trying to appear other than I was.

I felt humiliated and decided that I would never do it again.

At 27 I read my first Ayn Rand book and I instantly embraced the foundation of her social philosophy: "Nobody has the right to initiate force against another human being".

I became a libertarian conservative (partly as a backlash against my past in a communist dictatorship). Not long after I started discovering huge holes and contradictions in her philosophy (never dealing with fraud: the main tool of theft in capitalism)

Then I met my wife and she started educating me (I was a techie, totally ignorant of history, sociology, political science, philosophy).

I became a socialist.

In my fifties I realized that there is something drastically wrong with the world, so I started educating myself in economics. It took 2 years to get to the bottom of that crime novel and now I can see clearly what is going on. Chomsky was a great help in getting started and once I was rolling there was no stopping me.

Now I am an anarchist with socialist sympathies.

There was a price to pay, though: I was a lot happier person in my ignorance, as far as my relationship with humanity is concerned.

I have never read any Aldous Huxley...........is there any of his works you can reccomend to begin with???

About a month ago I first heard of Ayn Rand and have looked a little into what she represented. From what I have seen she does make sense but i think her views can be seen too often as too radical to the individual that they forget that the whole system would be operating in the same way at the same time. I dont think people see the implementations on a grander scale and how that would affect the individual.

She also questions my morality and in turn what that means to me......she wishes people not to feel obliged to help others, it may sound quite cold but I think she meant simply the current establishments of "faith/religion" we have at the moment.

When I first looked her up I was impressed to see that she first got into america in the late 50s.......I can only imagine how she would of been seen......an independent woman, a russian, at the beggining of the cold war, speaking radically on govermental changes.......Blush........wow, talk about uphill struggle ha ha.

I agree that there is a price to pay to what some people would be called "enlightened"........given the choice with hindsight wether I would rather not know the information I have learned, Im not sure if I could take comfort in allowing my beliefs to be led for the security of my ignorance........balancing the two up I would rather face the burden and have a more free mind.......I may not yet be empowered to do anything about it, but I may in the future.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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03-09-2011, 11:29 AM
 
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
(03-09-2011 11:01 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have never read any Aldous Huxley...........is there any of his works you can reccomend to begin with???

Huxley's most famous (best known) work is "Brave New World" and its sequel "Brave New World Revisited" (in which he evaluates, decades later, society's progress toward his dystopia depicted in the first book). To balance things, his last novel "Island" (published in 1962 at the hight of the drug-culture) portrays a Utopia with many wonderful ideas (apart from approving the use of limited amount of mind-altering drugs for the purpose of inducing insights).

Quote:About a month ago I first heard of Ayn Rand and have looked a little into what she represented. From what I have seen she does make sense but i think her views can be seen too often as too radical to the individual that they forget that the whole system would be operating in the same way at the same time. I dont think people see the implementations on a grander scale and how that would affect the individual.

She also questions my morality and in turn what that means to me......she wishes people not to feel obliged to help others, it may sound quite cold but I think she meant simply the current establishments of "faith/religion" we have at the moment.

When I first looked her up I was impressed to see that she first got into america in the late 50s.......I can only imagine how she would of been seen......an independent woman, a russian, at the beggining of the cold war, speaking radically on govermental changes.......Blush........wow, talk about uphill struggle ha ha.

Ayn Rand is a curious character. She worships the individual, the heroic achievement, ability, competence, purpose-driven lives. Her social philosophy is pure Laissez-faire Capitalism where talent is not obstructed by social consideration. Her book "The Virtue of Selfishness" is her ethical stand and rather silly, full of holes and contradictions. She considered herself a Philosopher, in Aristotle's mold (she considered him the greatest) and her biggest disappointment was that the world did not recognize her as such. She sort of founded a Philosophical movement she called "Objectivism", mostly attracting young and naive enthusiasts. A few of her disciples, like Alan Greenspan, achieved prominence. Her most famous novels are "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged", the most enjoyable reading are: "Night of January 16" (turned into a Broadway play, launching her career) and "Anthem" (a poetic short story about discovering electric light in a societ resisting change). Taking Ayn Rand too seriously can hold back your development as a human being. Read it for fun, she has a great sense of drama and pretty clever plots, even if they stretch your credulity a bit too far.

Quote:I agree that there is a price to pay to what some people would be called "enlightened"........given the choice with hindsight wether I would rather not know the information I have learned, Im not sure if I could take comfort in allowing my beliefs to be led for the security of my ignorance........balancing the two up I would rather face the burden and have a more free mind.

Exactly my sentiments.
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04-09-2011, 05:31 PM
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
Fear is another thing that can be taught. A prime example is when I was a kid I would see my mum and sister freak out at spiders.....this taught me that even though a spider had never harmed me that I was to fear them.

I still feel a teeny bit jumpy now when I pick them up, even though rationally I know I have picked many up before and never been hurt by any of them. I may have this fear forever.....even though in my mind there is no danger.

This led me to think of lots of other things that I fear and realise how irrational these fears are also, however realising your fears doesnt release your from them fully ha ha.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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05-09-2011, 07:12 PM
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
We all grow up steeped in a culture and surrounded by a family, so we inherit a lot of attitudes we're not aware of, until we get out of that environment and have a longer perspective.
One of the assumptions i find difficult to communicate through is the one everyone - or nearly everyone - in the west seems to have had hammered into their heads: that everything is counted in money and that capitalism is the only possible way to live. It's not merely an economic idea, it's an all-encompassing belief-system. People even equate capitalism with democracy. They can't separate the political, economic, social, cultural and philosophical concepts under which they live. This means they can't evaluate or even regard any other existing system, nor imagine any possible systems that have not yet been tried, nor take seriously any innovations suggested by their contemporaries of greater mental scope. It's frustrating and limiting and an almost insurmountable obstacle to progress.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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05-09-2011, 07:23 PM
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
(05-09-2011 07:12 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  We all grow up steeped in a culture and surrounded by a family, so we inherit a lot of attitudes we're not aware of, until we get out of that environment and have a longer perspective.
One of the assumptions i find difficult to communicate through is the one everyone - or nearly everyone - in the west seems to have had hammered into their heads: that everything is counted in money and that capitalism is the only possible way to live. It's not merely an economic idea, it's an all-encompassing belief-system. People even equate capitalism with democracy. They can't separate the political, economic, social, cultural and philosophical concepts under which they live. This means they can't evaluate or even regard any other existing system, nor imagine any possible systems that have not yet been tried, nor take seriously any innovations suggested by their contemporaries of greater mental scope. It's frustrating and limiting and an almost insurmountable obstacle to progress.

How ironic that a religious person may say "money is the root of all evil"........when compared to your post (which I fully agree with).........it makes me chuckle.

I think we would need to dismantle the whole system to fully appreciate alternatives.....however you dismantle it I cant imagine it being easy, what sort of event could trigger something like that???

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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05-09-2011, 08:10 PM
RE: Belief.....extent of control.
Vulgarity ahead - proceed at own risk.


Guy notices that his penis has some discolouration and it seems to be spreading, so he goes to his family doctor. Doctor looks at the affected organ and says : "That looks like himbi-himbi. I'm afraid there is no cure but amputation."
Guy can't accept this, of course, so he asks to be referred to a urologist. Unfortunately, the urologist confirms the original diagnosis and recommends amputation as soon as can be arranged.
Well, the guy resists, goes to another specialist and yet another, and they all say the same thing. As time passes, the doscolouration spreads and is quite dark purple by now. Finally, the fourth doctor he shows it to says, "Yes, it is definitely himbi-himbi."
"And you think it has to be amputated?" the guy asks.
"No," says the doctor, "it will fall off by itself."

You need to know that joke so you can deploy the punch line in a number of life situations.
The present system doesn't need to be dismantled; it's self-destructing before our eyes, only we're mostly still in denial. Journalists and scientists who have a great deal of reliable information at their disposal have been writing for years about how the world will change - radically! - in the next 20-30 years, but nobody in charge and hardly any voter, pays any attention.

But that doesn't mean we can't think about alternatives, or imagine after-pictures, or even plan how we, individually, could maybe avoid standing right underneath the thing when it falls.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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