Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
This poll is closed.
Peacefull reasoning 69.23% 9 69.23%
Full attack of facts 30.77% 4 30.77%
Total 13 votes 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-06-2016, 04:19 PM
Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
We cannot continue to spout out facts to religious people. Thier mental programing is deep seeded in repetition and emotional comradery of their religion. We have to attack at angles to open their minds. The direct approach is a failure 90% of the time. We have to find a common ground for facts first to infiltrate the programming. Use education, political, ecological, poisoning of the environment or the latest conspiracy theory. What ever angle that works to introduce facts into their perceptual field. We atheist, as we are labeled, see the dogmatic fundamentalist beliefs as destructive to humanity as an atomic war. But those in that belief system see it as the absolute truth and glorify it as such. Our factual knowledge base has to be vast in order to open their minds to facts. The religion bashing, hate, violence and ridicule will not advance our species. The religious groups have used hate and violence for thousands of years. We cant compete with them on that level we will fail. We have to use critical thinking, reason, compassion and dedication to the advancement of our species as our weapons to end ignorance. If we only advance ourselves in knowledge and leave the rest to wallow in ignorance, we will be taken down with them when they bring about the end they so gloriously look forward to. We will facilitate the very armageddon they long for if we do nothing to help our fellow man see the truth. We can break down the belief programming threw combined efforts. I know our only strength is our unity. We atheist know all religions are fake and comprised by people wanting to control humankind. We must help our fellow man come to that conclusion or there will not be a humankind to help.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Facts only mean something if people choose to accept them. Most religious people I know accept facts fine, it's that they hold "non-verifiable" beliefs that makes them religious. How to stop somebody from holding a belief that can't be proven false? I don't know. Neither peaceful reasoning or a hard attack on them seem to be a reliable method.

That being said, that was a tl;dr skim. Walls of text hurt me.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Adrianime's post
03-06-2016, 06:09 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Religion is a security blanket. Elderly religious people can simply not face the fact that the people they loved and respected all their lives have lied to them. Nor is there a point in de-converting the elderly.

The best people to talk to are young. They have less years of indoctrination under their belt. And they matter for the future.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Dom's post
04-06-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(03-06-2016 06:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  Religion is a security blanket. Elderly religious people can simply not face the fact that the people they loved and respected all their lives have lied to them. Nor is there a point in de-converting the elderly.

The best people to talk to are young. They have less years of indoctrination under their belt. And they matter for the future.

I agree, the youth when given facts about the origins of religion step away from dogmatic religious beliefs easily. The problem is opening the minds of adults to the fact the are being programed to serve an agenda that is not their own.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(03-06-2016 06:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  Religion is a security blanket. Elderly religious people can simply not face the fact that the people they loved and respected all their lives have lied to them. Nor is there a point in de-converting the elderly.
I think there is a point to living a truth-based life, no matter what age you are.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Facts are only facts if all of the parameters are considered, and even if they’re indisputable facts (such as with hard science), then we may still be unimpressed with them because they simply don’t resonate with us in the way that Christian or a Christian-raised Atheists expect.

I’ll give you a fairly weak example, but it’s the only thing that’s coming to my mind right now.

Judaism teaches that G-d offered the Torah to every group of people prior to offering it to the Jews. So if, according to Jewish teaching, all other people were offered the same stories and ideas prior to the writing of the Torah (according to Judaism, some 3,500 years ago), then why should a Jewish audience be surprised when the Epic of Gilgamesh pops up?

Atheists who present this argument to Jewish people seem to expect that we’re going to be stunned into silence and have the fabric of our culture and region somehow cast into doubt because of this. In reality, Jewish people view this information as validation of our religious beliefs.

I strongly support science and actual evidence (archaeological, historical, etc) being introduced to religious people, because at least for Judaism, if something is a fact (as opposed to interpretation), the vast majority of Jewish movements absolutely will reinterpret texts in light of the new information. However, when we're not impressed with “facts,” it may not be because of camaraderie or simple refusal to change our way of thinking. Sometimes the people who present these facts fail to understand what we think in the first place.

So I agree, you have to attack at angles that open the minds of religious people if your goal is to promote meaningful change. But to do that, you must first understand what religious people actually think, and not just what you think they think.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Aliza's post
04-06-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(04-06-2016 10:21 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 06:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  Religion is a security blanket. Elderly religious people can simply not face the fact that the people they loved and respected all their lives have lied to them. Nor is there a point in de-converting the elderly.
I think there is a point to living a truth-based life, no matter what age you are.

I don't think there is any point at all in pulling the rug out from under an 80 year old person. Why should they have to live with deep depression for the rest of their lives? Everything they lived for will be destroyed. They don't recover like the young, not physically and not mentally.

Why would you want to ruin the rest of someone's life? So you can feel righteous?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Dom's post
04-06-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(04-06-2016 11:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-06-2016 10:21 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I think there is a point to living a truth-based life, no matter what age you are.

I don't think there is any point at all in pulling the rug out from under an 80 year old person. Why should they have to live with deep depression for the rest of their lives? Everything they lived for will be destroyed. They don't recover like the young, not physically and not mentally.

Why would you want to ruin the rest of someone's life? So you can feel righteous?
I just don't believe the illusion of happiness holds a candle to reality. I wouldn't go out of my way to convince somebody, regardless of their age. But dying while being devoted to something false is terrible. Similarly, any amount of time with the freedom from religious shackles is worth it.

If it isn't clear. I am not making it my mission to deconvert anybody. But that doesn't mean that I don't think living with a non-theistic outlook is more fulfilling, and healthier.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
"We" don't have to do anything. I am not interested in preaching and attacking beliefs; as I'm free to disbelieve so are others free to believe and partake in opium of the masses.

Wysłane z mojego 6045K przy użyciu Tapatalka

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Szuchow's post
04-06-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(04-06-2016 11:29 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I just don't believe the illusion of happiness holds a candle to reality. I wouldn't go out of my way to convince somebody, regardless of their age. But dying while being devoted to something false is terrible. Similarly, any amount of time with the freedom from religious shackles is worth it.

Viewed from your persepective that would be accurate, but as Aliza said, Know Thine Audience. If the "illusion of happiness" offers them peace while their new "reality" offers them only cognitive dissonance and terror of their own impending death then it's pretty simple to see which is the better situation.

The elderly have more resistance to change and less capacity courtesy of a lifetime of ingrained thinking. That's true regardless of what you believe. Also less time to develop a new world view.

Dying while devoted to something false is unimportant. The falsehood expires with you. Living while devoted to something false is another matter, and one that depends on the nature of the falsehood.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Paleophyte's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: