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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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10-06-2016, 07:46 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
You should crack open see science books if you actually want to learn about the scientific arguments in detail.

The greatest show on earth by Richard Dawkins is a good intro to evolution.

Krauss, Hawking, and Sagan have written quite a lot on the universe. Try them.

But stop with the bullshit pretending/lying that you're here to discuss when you're here to preach bullshit.

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10-06-2016, 07:48 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  There were over 24000 manuscripts of the New Testament which were nearly entirely identical:

None of them are entirely identical. There are mistakes and there are deliberate changes. The changes were made for political and theological reasons. The bible was altered. This is indisputable.

Did god inspire the alterations?

Did god inspire the addition of the "woman taken in adultery" story?

You didn't answer me about Orthodoxy.

The churches that preached the "Orthodox" doctrine essentially absorbed those that did not. In some cases it was political and peaceful. In many cases they slaughtered those who disagreed. Orthodox or Correct doctrine was determined not by god but by sword's edge and stake's fire.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  The books that did not make the cut were suspected of being forgeries or false doctrine.

There are known forgeries in the bible. More are suspected.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  He rebelled with a prideful heart and wanting to sit near the thrown of the Leader of the Triune God.

That answers none of my questions. What could anyone do to cause harm to a god?
Especially a god who knew it was going to happen.
Especially a god who made it happen.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Human bodies were created un-flawed in the Garden of Eden. Man had free-will in the Garden of Eden to choose to disobey though and that is what he did. By the way DNA research is showing we share a common ancestor, single male and single female. I believe the Garden of Eden is now covered under water in the mid-east.

DNA shows multiple mitochondrial ancestors. There was no garden of eden. It was allegory, at best.

And if god is omniscient then free will does not exist. If there is predestination, there is no free will.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  1 Samuel 6:6 clarifies that it was actually pharaoh hardening his heart against the Lord.

3:1 ratio says that you are wrong.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  God is Love and following Him will lead to righteousness. To follow the Lord and Creator you must fear Him (honor, respect, and obey), trust Him, and love Him. This is true with leadership in general as well.

Love? Your god loves you so much that if you don't love him back, he will torture you forever in a "lake of eternal fire".

That's not love.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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10-06-2016, 08:10 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 07:38 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 07:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence for any of that.


Different book, different author, different time. Just another inconsistency in a slapped-together collection of myths.


There is no evidence for any of that.

No inconsistency, just later more insight was provided. The Bible often provides a part of a story and then later goes into more details or further explanation. This is typical throughout the book.

There is only one source which prophesizes (foretells) thousands of years of this world's history, with astounding precision, written in an encoded symbolic language; and that source is the Bible. The Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation, in particular, are amazing when properly interpreted, in addition to all the other prophecies. The prophecy symbols are available at; http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/bible-symbols. These symbols are the keys to unlocking the code of the Book, as the Bible interprets itself.

When properly interpreted? You mean presuppostion and confirmation bias.
How do you determine what interpretation is proper?
There are absolutely no unequivocally accurate prophesies in the Bible, merely forced interpretations of vague and bizarre stories.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-06-2016, 08:13 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 07:41 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 07:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What you've claimed to know is incorrect. And when it's pointed out, you arrogantly assert your ignorance as knowledge. See the pattern yet? Probably not Drinking Beverage

What did I say that was not correct. I meant DNA is in a molecule and wrote protein molecule. Big deal. I have been answering tons of questions and discussing this topic for 12 pages with numerous posters. Please forgive the minor discrepancy in terms.

You didn't just say it once, you repeated it. Your thinking on this is not clear.

Quote:You still have not discussed the genetic information and the systems and processes which create the molecular machines or how these machines operate. So please educate me more on this based on your advanced knowledge in this scientific field.

Asked and answered. The answer is book length. Read a book.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-06-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 07:44 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 07:41 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  What did I say that was not correct. I meant DNA is in a molecule and wrote protein molecule. Big deal. I have been answering tons of questions and discussing this topic for 12 pages with numerous posters. Please forgive the minor discrepancy in terms.

You still have not discussed the genetic information and the systems and processes which create the molecular machines or how these machines operate. So please educate me more on this based on your advanced knowledge in this scientific field.

I've tried to educate you and you continue to respond with religious special pleading. I can't make you want to learn but you need to stop lying by implying you want to learn or discuss. You just want to preach. Preaching theists on an atheist forum, insecure people No

Our discussions were based on science. The other poster was asking me theological questions which I chose to respond to.
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10-06-2016, 08:27 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 07:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You should crack open see science books if you actually want to learn about the scientific arguments in detail.

The greatest show on earth by Richard Dawkins is a good intro to evolution.

Krauss, Hawking, and Sagan have written quite a lot on the universe. Try them.

But stop with the bullshit pretending/lying that you're here to discuss when you're here to preach bullshit.

I've asked a number of posters to explain how the DNA code to molecular machine construction works in a natural sense and no one provided any detail into the process. There is no way this is just some random process.

I am familiar with all those scientists and watched many videos from them and watched their debates and did some reading on them. Even Dawkins, when asked where the information bearing properties of DNA come from, had to concede and say maybe we were seeded here by aliens. This occurs near the end of the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g
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10-06-2016, 08:41 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 08:27 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 07:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You should crack open see science books if you actually want to learn about the scientific arguments in detail.

The greatest show on earth by Richard Dawkins is a good intro to evolution.

Krauss, Hawking, and Sagan have written quite a lot on the universe. Try them.

But stop with the bullshit pretending/lying that you're here to discuss when you're here to preach bullshit.

I've asked a number of posters to explain how the DNA code to molecular machine construction works in a natural sense and no one provided any detail into the process. There is no way this is just some random process.

I am familiar with all those scientists and watched many videos from them and watched their debates and did some reading on them. Even Dawkins, when asked where the information bearing properties of DNA come from, had to concede and say maybe we were seeded here by aliens. This occurs near the end of the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g

Not a single person told you it was a random process. Step away from the straw men and presuppositionalist bullshit.

You've had your questions answered and your ignorance pointed out. You've got to do the leg-work on the learning side of this. Claiming to want to learn or discuss while preaching religious nonsense and asserting ignorance as knowledge, just makes you dishonest.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-06-2016, 08:41 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 07:48 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  There were over 24000 manuscripts of the New Testament which were nearly entirely identical:

None of them are entirely identical. There are mistakes and there are deliberate changes. The changes were made for political and theological reasons. The bible was altered. This is indisputable.

Did god inspire the alterations?

Did god inspire the addition of the "woman taken in adultery" story?

You didn't answer me about Orthodoxy.

The churches that preached the "Orthodox" doctrine essentially absorbed those that did not. In some cases it was political and peaceful. In many cases they slaughtered those who disagreed. Orthodox or Correct doctrine was determined not by god but by sword's edge and stake's fire.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  The books that did not make the cut were suspected of being forgeries or false doctrine.

There are known forgeries in the bible. More are suspected.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  He rebelled with a prideful heart and wanting to sit near the thrown of the Leader of the Triune God.

That answers none of my questions. What could anyone do to cause harm to a god?
Especially a god who knew it was going to happen.
Especially a god who made it happen.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Human bodies were created un-flawed in the Garden of Eden. Man had free-will in the Garden of Eden to choose to disobey though and that is what he did. By the way DNA research is showing we share a common ancestor, single male and single female. I believe the Garden of Eden is now covered under water in the mid-east.

DNA shows multiple mitochondrial ancestors. There was no garden of eden. It was allegory, at best.

And if god is omniscient then free will does not exist. If there is predestination, there is no free will.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  1 Samuel 6:6 clarifies that it was actually pharaoh hardening his heart against the Lord.

3:1 ratio says that you are wrong.

(10-06-2016 06:51 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  God is Love and following Him will lead to righteousness. To follow the Lord and Creator you must fear Him (honor, respect, and obey), trust Him, and love Him. This is true with leadership in general as well.

Love? Your god loves you so much that if you don't love him back, he will torture you forever in a "lake of eternal fire".

That's not love.

Actually, the 24000 manuscripts are almost identical aside from some grammar and spelling differences. They are like 99.5 percent identical.

Evil infiltrated the Christian church. I believe nearly all churches are corrupt today and run like businesses. They were corrupt in the time of Jesus as well which is why he was always doing verbal battle with the Pharisees. Jesus referenced the true church His body and in the body of his followers (read John regarding the temple raising in 3 days). When asked by the rich man, he said give money to the poor. He did not say give money to the church since it was corrupt.

Many of the killings, inquistions,..., are from the Roman Catholic church which combined Christianity and paganism. They attacked true Bible Christians and Jews and I believe they even created Islam to do the same. This was also prophesied in the Bible centuries before the creation of that church as well. The office of the pope is the office of the antichrist and the Catholic system is the antichrist system also including it's many branches (Mystery Babylon).

God did not make Lucifer rebel. Also, on earth we have free will to choose the Lord or choose rebellion against Him. Same was true with Lucifer and his rebelling angels.

God does know all time here which is why I believe time travel, as based on Einstein's equations is possible. God transcends this universe and all time.

There is both free will and God knows what is going to happen throughout all time. It is a combination of the two.

DNA is dating back to a single male and female ancestor for everyone.

1 Samuel 6:6 provides more insight that pharaoh was hardening his heart against the Lord.

The Bible says that in the end, death and hell will be destroyed so the torment will end (Revelation 20:14). The righteous die once, the wicked die twice.
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10-06-2016, 08:45 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 08:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 07:38 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  No inconsistency, just later more insight was provided. The Bible often provides a part of a story and then later goes into more details or further explanation. This is typical throughout the book.

There is only one source which prophesizes (foretells) thousands of years of this world's history, with astounding precision, written in an encoded symbolic language; and that source is the Bible. The Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation, in particular, are amazing when properly interpreted, in addition to all the other prophecies. The prophecy symbols are available at; http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/bible-symbols. These symbols are the keys to unlocking the code of the Book, as the Bible interprets itself.

When properly interpreted? You mean presuppostion and confirmation bias.
How do you determine what interpretation is proper?
There are absolutely no unequivocally accurate prophesies in the Bible, merely forced interpretations of vague and bizarre stories.

There are many prophecies in the Bible, thousands. They predict the future with astounding precision. Even lesser known prophecies like the relationship between Cleopatra and Julius Caesar are predicted in the Bible hundreds of years prior to their birth. The Vatican is predicted. Empires of Greece, Medio-Persia, and Rome are predicted. The United States is predicted 1700 years in advance. Learn the symbology and the prophecies become very clear. Jesus fulfilled 100 Old Testament prophecies as the Messiah. Jesus was mentioned by a number of prominent historians by the way. I know this is a common lie many are fed.
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10-06-2016, 08:46 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 08:21 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Our discussions were based on science. The other poster was asking me theological questions which I chose to respond to.

You started off your posting by claiming a "designer". You brought theology into it from the get-go.


BTW:
There's a forum on that apologetics website:
forums

And the website quotes a misleading Einstein quote on the front page. It does not lend credibility to the site.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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