Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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11-06-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 06:50 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 06:46 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It's not "word games" to point out the fallacy in your posts.

Asserting that "that just how it is" because of your religious beliefs, is a religious argument. Preach somewhere else and they might give a shit. Preach here and your stupidity will be mocked endlessly for the ignorance and illogical drudgery it is. That's just how it is Drinking Beverage

You mock on here because your arguments are weak. The extreme specified complexity in living systems is undeniably and clearly designed from intelligence so you resort to mocking, scoffing, insulting, falsely accusing, word games, straw man, ad-hominen,... I've seen all this before, numerous times. Same old tricks, different day.

Accusing me of your failings, is also hardly convincing. If you've "seen all this before" then that signifies you've a habit of preaching stupid shit for dishonest reasons to people and having it pointed out to you.

(You also don't know what an ad hominem is. An ad hominem isn't merely an insult. It's an insult used as the rationale for not engaging with an argument you're making. So, "you haven't supported your religious assertions, idiot." Is not an ad hominem. But "your argument is bulshit because you're an asshole" would be)

Dime a dozen dishonest theists. Drinking Beverage

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11-06-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 06:53 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 06:52 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  This coming from the person whose argument consists of:

"Wow that's complicated. God did it."

That is not an argument.

Not complicated, I never said that. I said extreme specificity combined with extreme complexity making the design and construction of a 747 jet look like a joke in comparison.

You didn't say "complex" but you did say "extreme complexity" and you have the audacity of accusing us of playing "word games"?

Dishonest and hypocritical, who'd have guessed a theist would be both [/sarcasmfont]

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11-06-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 06:53 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 06:52 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  This coming from the person whose argument consists of:

"Wow that's complicated. God did it."

That is not an argument.

Not complicated, I never said that. I said extreme specificity combined with extreme complexity making the design and construction of a 747 jet look like a joke in comparison.

Wait, I hear the "tornado in a junkyard making a 747" routine coming... Drinking Beverage


Oh and you are playing word games:

Quote:The extreme specified complexity of living systems clearly proves the design of living systems and the unimaginable extreme fine-tuning of the universe proves the design of the universe. No word games there. That just is how it is.

"Specified complexity" would be "complicated" wouldn't it?

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11-06-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
It could be that the Lord allowed you two to harden your hearts. I pray you repent and turn to the Lord for salvation.
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11-06-2016, 07:21 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 08:46 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Natural/random = Tomato/Tomahto

Natural and random are not the same thing. You will never understand evolution until you grasp the distinction. Natural processes proceed based on chemistry and physics. Which bits come into contact is random; what happens when they do is not.

(11-06-2016 05:56 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  Universe and living systems are either designed from intelligence or came from blind dumb luck random chance. Those are the only two options.

"blind dumb luck random chance" is needed to explain why the specific result we see today exists but that is not really relevant unless you have a presupposition that we are a desired end result. You appear to be looking at it backwards. It would be like saying "I won the lottery against all odds so it must have been rigged in my favor". The process of natural selection takes extremely simple self-replicating molecules (which occur naturally through chemistry) and makes ever more efficient replicators. The specific result of the process is affected by random chance because there is no goal. We look back at it and say it is amazingly lucky that things worked in our favor but if things had proceeded differently something other life might be looking back amazed at how lucky it was that they had evolved. Since the process is still going on the distant descendants of current life may look back someday and be amazed at how lucky they are.

(11-06-2016 06:00 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  What I am saying is either the universe and livings systems are designed or all came about by some dumb luck random chance. Those are the only two options.
...
That is my argument and there is no straw man in that. I despise the straw man tactic, as well as all the other manipulative debate tactics.

Nobody is arguing that life arose through either intelligence or blind chance except you. Chance would only be important if we were arguing for a specific kind of life to have evolved and that is not the issue. You insist on a false dichotomy that misrepresents what others are claiming and that is a textbook strawman argument.

(11-06-2016 06:28 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  The Lord allowed pharaoh to harden his heart. 1 Samuel 6:6 provides insight into this.

That's a very convenient apologetic but it requires denying what the text of Exodus actually says. For a book supposedly inspired, if not authored, by an omnipotent being it certainly is very unclear in what it actually means. It's almost like it was written by people with very little understanding of how the world actually works and a hazy knowledge of their own history and various political and social agendas.... In the end, it's at least as much mythology as history so arguing interpretations is like arguing whether Scarlett O'Hara was justified in what she did (of course, unlike the Exodus, we have evidence that the US Civil War happened).

Read some Bart Ehrman or Richard Friedman on when this stuff was written, why, and how it was combined. Apologetic versions of the story will gloss over the truth.

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11-06-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 07:14 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  It could be that the Lord allowed you two to harden your hearts. I pray you repent and turn to the Lord for salvation.

I hope you one day realize how arrogant and self-righteous you're being and stop. My hopes aren't high though Drinking Beverage

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11-06-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 07:14 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  It could be that the Lord allowed you two to harden your hearts. I pray you repent and turn to the Lord for salvation.

Don't hold your breath. Drinking Beverage

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11-06-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 07:14 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  It could be that the Lord allowed you two to harden your hearts. scientific evidence makes more sense than your mythology and you convince no one with your fairy tale.

I de-bullshitted your statement, you're welcome. Thumbsup

(11-06-2016 07:14 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  I pray you repent and turn to the Lord for salvation.

Bless your passive-aggressive heart. Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-06-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(11-06-2016 07:21 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 06:28 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  The Lord allowed pharaoh to harden his heart. 1 Samuel 6:6 provides insight into this.

That's a very convenient apologetic but it requires denying what the text of Exodus actually says.

You could take that even further.

A christian belief I've heard is in regards to Peter's denial of christ and subsequent affirmation. When the shit hits the fan and jesus is arrested, Peter turns coward and denies christ. He does this three times, in public, to multiple people. he then repents and is wracked with guilt. Not enough guilt and love to die beside his god, but...

So then when jesus shows up after being dead, (and since this is john it's after the zombie apocalypse in Jerusalem...) Peter affirms his love for jesus three times.

John 18:17-25
Peter denies jesus three times.

John 21:15-17
Peter says he loves jesus three times.


Now the interesting part is that since he denied christ three times, he had to affirm him three times.
The part about multiple witnesses, in public, etc. doesn't matter, but whatever.
So the numbers are important.

In Exodus, as I noted repeatedly above, god is responsible 11 times and pharaoh is responsible a mere 4 times.

What more EVIDENCE (heh...) do you need???




And it occurs to me that this post is even nerdier than an argument over star wars geeks and star trek geeks and who loses their virginity sooner...

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11-06-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(10-06-2016 06:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is most unfortunate that people describe DNA as coding for things or as a storage vessel for information, but that is because it is a lazy way of trying to concisely describe the chemistry.

It would be just as wrong if I say that a car uses gasoline to make the wheels turn. It's not entirely wrong because gasoline is fuel that is necessary, but it's a broad over-generalization that does not explain how or why the fuel is necessary or the engine or transmission or torque converter or differential or axle or wheels.

Great way to put it. ID'ers purposefully generalize and put their god into any gap. What ID is, is a way to sound sciency with a bunch of verbose biochemical terminology and then insert "goddidit" into any vaguely defined gap in a persons knowledge, or lack of knowledge of biochemistry.

It is literally a pernicious tool of deception by intellectual charlatans to deceive people.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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