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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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13-06-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:04 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:56 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Death entered the world for man after the fall. I believe there was animal death prior to the fall of man. I believe that is how Adam knew what God meant when He told him that if he ate from the tree of knowledge he would surely die. I think animal death was the example. God knows all and in my interpretation, he knew, despite Adam seeing the example of animal death, he would still disobey. Jesus, Son of God, came to this earth to redeem us from this fall.

I believe Adam walked the earth somewhere between 50,000 - 200,000 years ago. I believe the genealogy in the Bible from Adam to Abraham are just the key highlights of descendants (great grandfathers,...). I believe the Neanderthals and the like were like monkeys and belonged to the animal kingdom and Adam and Eve were the first modern humans which all our DNA traces back to.

I believe Ellen White created the ridiculous 6000 year old earth (Young Earth Creationism) to make Christianity appear as if it is based on a weak argument. I believe she was a false prophetess and deliberately created this view as a straw man to be easily knocked down. She made up many other rules and false interpretations and made it more difficult for people to come to Christianity. She made/makes her Christian followers lives hard with all these rules as well and adds on to God's commands which is strictly forbidden.

Well, that's just not fair. What did the animals do to deserve death? Death for them was just to serve as an example to man? What a dick move, God. Poor animals....

Can't argue scientific facts so resort to attempting to attack the Designer and the design. Old trick, different day. Seen this one.
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13-06-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:01 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:52 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.

- Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism; quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2
From the source below:

Einstein’s religion, if you have to put a label to it, is a sort of nebulous Deism: Maybe God played in role in creating the universe — because nature inspires such awe and the universe seems perfectly guided by mathematics — but that God has no direct affect on our lives today.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...od-or-not/

And from that article:
"So don’t believe the reports that suggest Einstein wasn’t an atheist. He may have dismissed the word, but it’s not like he spent any time praying or thinking about God."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-06-2016, 09:21 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:09 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Einstein denied being an atheist, and also repeatedly said he did not believe in a God in any sense like the Jodeo-Christian mythologies meant it. He said from the point of view of a Jesuit Priest, he would be considered an atheist, since he rejected those claims utterly. Einstein's belief was that it was impossible to know, but that the structure of the universe was plenty enough to consider awe-inspiring. So give it up. He wasn't an atheist in our sense, but he did reject all of the orianized religions' claims.

Most scientists, as Neil deGrasse Tyson has explained numerous times, don't even care about the question of God because it is irrelevant to most of the work they do. The Believers don't bring it up, nor do the atheists argue with them about it, because they consider the claims of Bronze Age goatherder tribes to be ridiculous.

And you really, REALLY need to go read the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial, to see where your ideas were destroyed under oath, when their chief scientific contributor was questioned about his claims in light of what has been published by others on the subjects he raises. You are clearly just as unaware as he was... and perhaps you can be excused for not knowing them. But now you have no excuse.

I agree Einstein was not an atheist or for organized religion. I said that in my post. He was more like a deist.

I know all about that case. A lot of politics in that case. Watch the video I posted earlier where Dawkins says we may have been seeded here by aliens. The video with Ben Stein. It discusses this case. I read more about it as well but that video is good.
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13-06-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 07:32 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Specify means "1. identify clearly and definitely. 2. state a fact or requirement clearly and precisely."

Complexity means, "the state or quality of being intricate or complicated."

Hence, specified complexity of living systems and molecular machines means they are both 1.clearly and precisely identified and 2. intricate and complicated.

The DNA to molecular machines are beyond that even. They are so precise and so complex it boggles the mind. A fully functional 747 is a joke in comparison to how these micro-machines were built and operate.

I provide the definition of irreducible complexity in a post above and show how it is not refuted.

There is the Dawkins example and all of this:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...scientists

If constants of universe were different, life would not exist.
No, if one of the over 20 constants were off, life would not exist.
This is the only universe we know of or have any evidence for.

You did not understand the arguments or the fact that your definition of irreducible complexity reduces to Dawkins' definition.

The argument you miss is that the system as it is today is built from pieces that had some other function in the past.

I got what he was saying. He was trying to over simplify the definition in a straw man tactic to try to more easily refute it. Been there seen that.

Final Answer: Either random or designed. Clearly designed.
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13-06-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:10 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:01 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Einstein’s religion, if you have to put a label to it, is a sort of nebulous Deism: Maybe God played in role in creating the universe — because nature inspires such awe and the universe seems perfectly guided by mathematics — but that God has no direct affect on our lives today.

In regards to your god, Einstein said he was an atheist.


Why do theists insist on using lies and half truths?

Einstein was deist not atheist.
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13-06-2016, 09:25 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 07:43 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Can't argue the facts or refute the obvious case that these extremely specified and complex and irreducibly complex living systems are obviously, clearly, and totally 100 percent absolutely designed so try to attack the design and the Designer. Nice try but I seen this trick before.

Your opinion is not an argument. The evidence is all against you.

Nah, I disagree.
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13-06-2016, 09:25 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:16 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  There is no way around the absolute precision, astounding specificity, and astonishing complexity of the living system.

Yes, there is. It's called evolution.

Quote:It is so precise, specific, and complex,

Precise like birth defects? Precise like genetic diseases? Precise like prions?
Precise like what?

Quote:it is beyond comprehension

Beyond yours, apparently, but your incredulity is not an argument.

Quote:and then on top of all that, it is irreducibly complex,

No, it isn't. That has been debunked repeatedly.

Quote:meaning one component fails and the system fails or is degraded.

So? The system you see today did not come about all at once - it evolved from previous functional components that may have been doing other things.

Quote:Then the universe is un-imaginably fine-tuned.

No, it isn't. That has been debunked.

Quote:Next step, theology.

Don't bother - theology is all made up; it is not based on any evidence.

Quote:See my response post to those earlier videos for my take on that.

The Genesis 30 story is a miracle performed. See the interpretation below:
https://www.quora.com/How-do-biblical-li...s-30-37-39

It is all unsupported myth.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-06-2016, 09:26 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:01 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  From the source below:

Einstein’s religion, if you have to put a label to it, is a sort of nebulous Deism: Maybe God played in role in creating the universe — because nature inspires such awe and the universe seems perfectly guided by mathematics — but that God has no direct affect on our lives today.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...od-or-not/

And from that article:
"So don’t believe the reports that suggest Einstein wasn’t an atheist. He may have dismissed the word, but it’s not like he spent any time praying or thinking about God."

That's right, he was deist. He did not believe in a personal organized religion God but he was not atheist has been and still is my point.
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13-06-2016, 09:27 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(13-06-2016 09:17 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 09:04 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Well, that's just not fair. What did the animals do to deserve death? Death for them was just to serve as an example to man? What a dick move, God. Poor animals....

Can't argue scientific facts so resort to attempting to attack the Designer and the design. Old trick, different day. Seen this one.

And incessantly arguing over which non-Christian belief system Einstein held isn't a strawman at all, right?

Exactly how does proving that Einstein believed in a design help prove the Christian God's design since, as it has been mutually agreed upon, Einstein was not a Christian? It adds zero weight to your argument. You might as well be arguing the Norse creation story for weight.

Same old apologetic strawmen; new day.

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13-06-2016, 09:31 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
I'd like to hear the scientific fact that says god used dead animals as an example to Adam not to eat fruit. Sounds like it'd be interesting.
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