Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
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Peacefull reasoning 69.23% 9 69.23%
Full attack of facts 30.77% 4 30.77%
Total 13 votes 100%
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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03-07-2016, 08:18 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(04-06-2016 12:07 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 04:19 PM)larrymccall010513 Wrote:  The direct approach is a failure 90% of the time.

That's optimistic by several orders of magnitude. I can't recall a single instance where a direct intellectual assault converted anybody.

For that matter you don't convert people. They convert themselves. Only you can change your mind.

I'd say that the more important and realistic goal would be to work within the framework of their beliefs to help reduce some of the less functional elements. Help people understand that they don't need to follow one damned fool line in Leviticus, build an Ark Park, or send their money to some shrieking televangelist.

By rounding off the worst of the corners and loosening some of the nastier hooks you give them the chance to see their way clear of it. Belief is a situation that you have to understand your way clear of.
I,m not trying to convert people, or recruit for atheism. I,m trying to restore people to their humanity. A true pure form that does not need fantasy. Focusing on the moment and realizing that this moment is all we have helped me on my way to atheism. I found fear at first when I was searching for meaning in my life.
I looked for the source of the fear in my mind and found my religious beliefs to be the source. When I focused more on the moment I gradually left those beliefs and fears behind. It took a while to be free of that belief system. 35 years of my life was devoted to that system of fear, guilt and complete compliance to the will of a dogmatic saviour figure. Fear is the glue that holds religious beliefs in the mind. I know now that fear shuts down rational thought putting you in a flight or flight state.
A human in that fight or flight state is very open to suggestion. And that is where religion places it will upon humans. Its horrific when the eyes are opened to the truth of how religion gains power over humans. They use our instincts and our perception to gain a foothold in our minds.
I feel many of you see what I cant, that only the young can be reached threw reasoning. I guess I cant see it as clearly because as devote a christian as I was, I was able to break away and feel all christians could. I know that is a very optimistic, even unrealistic view, but I haven't lost faith in humanity yet.
I enjoy the sharing of knowledge and ideas we share on this site. As always I welcome all input.
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06-07-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Atheist faith - Mud created consciousness. Explain
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06-07-2016, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 11:59 AM by CDF47.)
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
The prophets were able to see the future and wrote clearly about the future in the Bible. The Bible is the only source which predicts thousands of years of this world's history with astounding precision, sometimes hundreds and even thousands of years in advance. From the year the Messiah would be baptized, to a description of the relationship between Cleopatra and Caesar hundreds of years prior to their birth, to a description of crucifixion 80 years prior to it's invention, to the kingdoms of Greece, Medio-Persia, pagan Rome, papal Rome, the United States of America (1600 years prior to her existence), up to the end of the world. The prophets predicted the future by inspiration from God. God knows all time from beginning to end as described in the Bible and as the prophets clearly showed in knowing the future.

Thousands of years later a scientist discovered time is relative.
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06-07-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:29 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  Atheist faith - Mud created consciousness. Explain

[Image: straw-man-2ggcp8b.png]

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06-07-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:29 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  Atheist faith - Mud created consciousness. Explain

There is not atheist faith. Rephrase your question in more accurate terms, such as "One current scientific hypothesis..."

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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06-07-2016, 11:53 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 11:29 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  Atheist faith - Mud created consciousness. Explain

[Image: straw-man-2ggcp8b.png]

Strawman??? Darwin believed that life might have originated from a primordial soup of mud getting struck by lightning. This is fact. He believed that if life was anymore complex than a glob of protoplasm (which is all the microscopes at the time could see) his theory falls apart. One hundred years later DNA was discovered.
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06-07-2016, 11:56 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:36 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  The prophets were able to see the future and wrote ...

The prophets were unable to see into the future and wrote a whole bunch of shit.

Quote:Ezekiel
29:10 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.
29:11 No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

Needless to say... Didn't happen.

There is an extensive list of failed biblical prophecies. Actually, all of them.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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06-07-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:56 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 11:36 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  The prophets were able to see the future and wrote ...

The prophets were unable to see into the future and wrote a whole bunch of shit.

Quote:Ezekiel
29:10 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.
29:11 No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

Needless to say... Didn't happen.

There is an extensive list of failed biblical prophecies. Actually, all of them.

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

No foot of man shall pass through it,.... This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation; it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had:

no foot of beast shall pass through it: no droves of sheep and oxen, and such like useful cattle, only beasts of prey should dwell in it:
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06-07-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 12:02 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 11:56 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  The prophets were unable to see into the future and wrote a whole bunch of shit.


Needless to say... Didn't happen.

There is an extensive list of failed biblical prophecies. Actually, all of them.

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

No foot of man shall pass through it,.... This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation; it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had:

no foot of beast shall pass through it: no droves of sheep and oxen, and such like useful cattle, only beasts of prey should dwell in it:

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06-07-2016, 12:13 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:53 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 11:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  [Image: straw-man-2ggcp8b.png]

Strawman??? Darwin believed that life might have originated from a primordial soup of mud getting struck by lightning. This is fact.

Why do you think it would matter if Darwin did say something like that? Darwin's contribution was to evolutionary theory, not abiogenesis.

Quote:He believed that if life was anymore complex than a glob of protoplasm (which is all the microscopes at the time could see) his theory falls apart. One hundred years later DNA was discovered.

Even assuming you are representing his statements accurately (and I do not accept that you are) Darwin is not the be-all and end-all for the theory of evolution by natural selection. Knowledge has advanced since his day. Your claim that evolution is accurately represented by "mud created consciousness" is a strawman, and not even a good one.

What you don't seem to grasp is that Darwin isn't worshipped or considered to be infallible. He is respected for his contribution but his work has been superseded. Science, unlike religion, advances.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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