Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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06-07-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 12:02 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

No foot of man shall pass through it,.... This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation;

Bull - fucking - shit.

(06-07-2016 12:02 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had:

Congratulations. Under that logic, we can re-write the whole bible to be whatever we want.

It should not be thought that thou shalt not steal. Rather, thou shalt not steal when thou ist likely to get caught.

Seriously, fucking pathetic.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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06-07-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
I think the most important battle to be waged against all manner of woo is in the public school classroom. We have to do whatever we can to advocate and perpetuate an atmosphere of fact-based education that values debate and evidence. A young mind is very fertile ground for whatever seeds are planted. Parents of faith will do their best to nurture "belief" as opposed to "knowledge" in young children. They have that right. I think the best we can do is to temper this type of instruction in "spiritual matters" or "tradition" with a solid foundation in factual matters and a nurturing of a child's inherent search for proof and sensible explanations of the universe around them and their place in it.
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06-07-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 11:29 AM)CDF47 Wrote:  Atheist faith - Mud created consciousness. Explain

Where is the knowledge trust or absolute correct proclamation? What defines it as faith. Is the claim of something being the possible truth, faith?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-07-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 12:02 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 11:56 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  The prophets were unable to see into the future and wrote a whole bunch of shit.


Needless to say... Didn't happen.

There is an extensive list of failed biblical prophecies. Actually, all of them.

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

No foot of man shall pass through it,.... This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation; it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had:

no foot of beast shall pass through it: no droves of sheep and oxen, and such like useful cattle, only beasts of prey should dwell in it:

Egypt:

[Image: Egypt-banner.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-07-2016, 01:51 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 01:43 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 12:02 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

No foot of man shall pass through it,.... This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation; it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had:

no foot of beast shall pass through it: no droves of sheep and oxen, and such like useful cattle, only beasts of prey should dwell in it:

Egypt:

[Image: Egypt-banner.jpg]

What a ghost town.
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06-07-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(04-06-2016 11:29 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(04-06-2016 11:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  I don't think there is any point at all in pulling the rug out from under an 80 year old person. Why should they have to live with deep depression for the rest of their lives? Everything they lived for will be destroyed. They don't recover like the young, not physically and not mentally.

Why would you want to ruin the rest of someone's life? So you can feel righteous?
I just don't believe the illusion of happiness holds a candle to reality. I wouldn't go out of my way to convince somebody, regardless of their age. But dying while being devoted to something false is terrible. Similarly, any amount of time with the freedom from religious shackles is worth it.

If it isn't clear. I am not making it my mission to deconvert anybody. But that doesn't mean that I don't think living with a non-theistic outlook is more fulfilling, and healthier.

You are assuming that dis-illusioning someone will lead to their happiness in the short term. I disagree. They may achieve happiness in the long term, but 80-year-olds don't really have a long-term.
Which would you rather have happen to you: die believing that your family members sincerely loved you, or die learning the truth that it was all a scam and they were were just being nice to you for your money.
Dying while being devoted to something false is not terrible for the person who doesn't ever find out that it's false. "Freedom from religious shackles", especially for the elderly, is not easy to achieve at all: you greatly overestimate the potential ROI

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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06-07-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Matthew Henry Ezekiel Commentary. Have to read all these verses to understand the context:

Verses 8-16 This explains the foregoing prediction, which was figurative, and looks something further. Here is a prophecy,I. Of the ruin of Egypt. The threatening of this is very full and particular; and the sin for which this ruin shall be brought upon them is their pride, v. 9. They said, The river is mine and I have made it; therefore their land shall spue them out. God is against them, both against the king and against the people, against thee and against thy rivers. Waters signify people and multitudes, Rev. 17:15 . Multitudes of them shall be cut off by the sword of war, a sword which God will bring upon them to destroy both man and beast, the sword of civil war. 3. The country shall be depopulated. The land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste (v. 9), the country not cultivated, the cities not inhabited. The wealth of both was their pride, and that God will take away. It shall be utterly waste (wastes of waste, so the margin reads it), and desolate (v. 10); neither men nor beasts shall pass through it, nor shall it be inhabited (v. 11); it shall be desolate in the midst of the countries that are so, v. 12. This was the effect not so much of those wars spoken of before, which were made by them, but of the war which the king of Babylon made upon them. It shall be desolate from one end of the land to the other, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. The sin of pride is enough to ruin a whole nation. 4. The people shall be dispersed and scattered among the nations (v. 12), so that those who thought the balance of power was in their hand should now become a contemptible people. Such a fall does a haughty spirit go before.II. Of the restoration of Egypt after awhile, v. 13. Egypt shall lie desolate forty years (v. 12) and then I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, v. 14. Some date the forty years from Nebuchadnezzar’s destroying Egypt, others from the desolation of Egypt some time before; however, they end about the first year of Cyrus, when the seventy years’ captivity of Judah ended, or soon after. Then this prediction was accomplished, 1. That God will gather the Egyptians out of all the countries into which they were dispersed, and make them to return to the land of their habitation, and give them a settlement there again, v. 14. Note, Though God will find out a way to humble the proud, yet he will not contend for ever, no, not with them in this world. 2. That yet they shall not make a figure again as they have done. Egypt shall be a kingdom again, but it shall be the basest of the kingdoms (v. 15); it shall have but little wealth and power, and shall not extend its conquests as formerly; it shall be the tail of the nations, and not the head. It is a mercy that it shall become a kingdom again, but, to humble it, it shall be a despicable kingdom; it shall be a long time before it recover any thing like its ancient lustre. For two reasons it shall be thus mortified:—(1.) That it may not domineer over its neighbours, that it may not exalt itself above the nations, nor rule over the nations, as it has done, but that it may know what it is to be low and despised. Note, Those who abuse their power will justly be stripped of it; and God, as King of nations, will find out a way to maintain the injured rights and liberties, not only of his own, but of other nations. (2.) That it may not deceive the people of God (v. 16): It shall no more be the confidence of the house of Israel; they shall no more be in temptation to trust in it as they have done, which is a sin that brings their iniquity to remembrance, that is, provokes God to punish them not for that only, but for all their other sins. Or it puts them in mind of their idolatries to return to them, when they look to the idolaters, to repose a confidence in them. Note, The creatures we confide in are often therefore ruined, because there is no other way effectually to cure us of our confidence in them. Rather than Israel shall be ensnared again, the whole land of Egypt shall be laid waste. He that once gave Egypt for their ransom (Isa. 43:3 ) will now give Egypt for their cure; and it shall be destroyed rather than Israel shall not in this particular be reformed. God, not only in justice, but in wisdom and goodness to us, breaks those creature-stays which we lean too much upon, and makes them to be no more, that they may be no more our confidence.
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06-07-2016, 08:35 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Abiogenesis still looks at lightning starting first life, as well as radiation and panspermia. The origins of the extreme specified complexity and irreducible complexity of living systems cannot be explained by lightning striking mud or radiation or rocks containing life hitting earth or aliens.
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06-07-2016, 08:41 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
The scientist who wrote the chemical evolution theory threw out his own theory and now is a strong proponent of design of living systems.
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06-07-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(06-07-2016 12:02 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 11:56 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  The prophets were unable to see into the future and wrote a whole bunch of shit.


Needless to say... Didn't happen.

There is an extensive list of failed biblical prophecies. Actually, all of them.

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

No foot of man shall pass through it,.... This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation; it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had:

no foot of beast shall pass through it: no droves of sheep and oxen, and such like useful cattle, only beasts of prey should dwell in it:


There has never been a time in Egypt's long history that it wasn't inhabited. Not one day much less 40 years. You're a world class idiot. Go read a real book. Something other than The Bubble.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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