Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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01-08-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 09:16 AM)AB517 Wrote:  I know, this place is not the place for middle of the roaders. But relentless common sense has no limits. we all need it.

belief should be formed by facts. As best we can that is. The emotional people need to understand their emotion and how it affects conclusions. Logical people need to understand what stone cold logic solutions can do. We all are a mixture. Understand our mixture and we understand other's choices.

If one forms a belief on "personal practical need" that's on them and they really shouldn't be forcing, or teaching, or deciding whats best for public consumption. These people amount to the religious type. it doesn't really matter what they believe. They KNOW they are correct. even when they use the words "I can't be sure." Read 10 of their posts, they truly think they have all that anybody needs to know.

These types may have some beliefs that line up with observations by chance. But in the end it is their personal emotional opinions deciding what is practical for the rest of us.

"literally my belief" types are the problem. It doesn't matter what observations say. If observations make it "hard to sell my beliefs" they dump them, ignore them, minimize them, and dehumanize the messenger.

Always keep the base understanding of "personality type", whatever that means, determine how the belief is expressed or forced on others. Many "sick" people believe in god and believe in no-god.

To apply the scientific method "logic". List personality traits. List relative mixtures of these types in people. Then fill in the how these types would express a belief. The belief can be anything. but here, put in "my god only" or "no-god (in any way)" only.

Milli-mentalist-thinkers and fundamentalist-thinkers are reeking havoc on the rest of us. Forcing their beliefs on everybody. Extreme examples are muslim countries and socialist/communist countries. middle eastern countries, russia, china, argentina.

Either we and the universe are designed and created or everything comes from some random process. Science shows we and the universe are designed and created. After that, time to turn to theology. After that, time to turn to the LORD. I thank God that he gave us so much scientific proof of His existence because the deceptions are so strong in these days.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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01-08-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 02:53 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  ... time to turn to the LORD.

Why that particular "Lord", though? What's wrong with Lord Krishna? Or Cthulhu?
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01-08-2017, 03:40 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 03:10 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 02:53 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  ... time to turn to the LORD.

Why that particular "Lord", though? What's wrong with Lord Krishna? Or Cthulhu?

Their creation stories make no sense. Old Earth Creationism and the Day Age Interpretation of Genesis makes scientific sense.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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01-08-2017, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 03:45 PM by CDF47.)
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
To all the honest skeptics, thanks for the questions and discussion.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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01-08-2017, 04:01 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 02:39 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 03:53 AM)morondog Wrote:  Why not Allah? Or the tinsel fairy? Christ Facepalm

In the Quran, Allah makes the claim that he is the greatest of all deceivers. I do not follow deceivers.

Yes, you do

2 Chronicles 18

Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

Quote:The science in the Quran is also not truthful.

It is according to Muslims and they can justify that claim just as well as you can justify yours.... not at all.

Quote:I do not follow the mythical religions because they are just myth. I follow truth, which is the Old and New Testament Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Yeshua Hamashiach.

Facepalm

Do some independent reading on the creation of the bible. Many of the stories can be traced back to earlier myths and it's quite obvious that it's no less mythological than the others.

(01-08-2017 02:47 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  His goal was not to save Himself but the world from itself. He atoned for our sins if we choose to truly believe in Him.

Substiutionary atonement is a primitive, barbaric, immoral concept. Your "sins" are atoned for by you making up for them; you can't foist them off onto somebody else and consider yourself the least bit moral.

(01-08-2017 03:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Their creation stories make no sense. Old Earth Creationism and the Day Age Interpretation of Genesis makes scientific sense.

No, they really don't. They are an ad hoc attempt to interpret the mythology to match the facts. The order of events is wrong and you have to cherry pick what is literal and what is figurative in order to even begin to align them and even then you have blind yourself to the obvious contradictions.

Given the science you can creatively interpret much of the bible to sorta-kinda agree in some places. Given the bible you would never reach the conclusions that science has. As a science book the bible is a complete and utter failure.

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01-08-2017, 04:01 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 02:53 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 09:16 AM)AB517 Wrote:  I know, this place is not the place for middle of the roaders. But relentless common sense has no limits. we all need it.

belief should be formed by facts. As best we can that is. The emotional people need to understand their emotion and how it affects conclusions. Logical people need to understand what stone cold logic solutions can do. We all are a mixture. Understand our mixture and we understand other's choices.

If one forms a belief on "personal practical need" that's on them and they really shouldn't be forcing, or teaching, or deciding whats best for public consumption. These people amount to the religious type. it doesn't really matter what they believe. They KNOW they are correct. even when they use the words "I can't be sure." Read 10 of their posts, they truly think they have all that anybody needs to know.

These types may have some beliefs that line up with observations by chance. But in the end it is their personal emotional opinions deciding what is practical for the rest of us.

"literally my belief" types are the problem. It doesn't matter what observations say. If observations make it "hard to sell my beliefs" they dump them, ignore them, minimize them, and dehumanize the messenger.

Always keep the base understanding of "personality type", whatever that means, determine how the belief is expressed or forced on others. Many "sick" people believe in god and believe in no-god.

To apply the scientific method "logic". List personality traits. List relative mixtures of these types in people. Then fill in the how these types would express a belief. The belief can be anything. but here, put in "my god only" or "no-god (in any way)" only.

Milli-mentalist-thinkers and fundamentalist-thinkers are reeking havoc on the rest of us. Forcing their beliefs on everybody. Extreme examples are muslim countries and socialist/communist countries. middle eastern countries, russia, china, argentina.

Either we and the universe are designed and created or everything comes from some random process. Science shows we and the universe are designed and created. After that, time to turn to theology. After that, time to turn to the LORD. I thank God that he gave us so much scientific proof of His existence because the deceptions are so strong in these days.

Random according to what and to what degree?

It is not scientifically shown that we or the universe were designed.

Theology has offered humanity nothing by itself, only bastardised philosophies with a slice of unnecessary magic atop, and that is at best.

What is the scientific 'proof' of a god? You have equations? Raw data available for review? Peer-reviewed papers at the least?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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01-08-2017, 04:07 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 03:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 03:10 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Why that particular "Lord", though? What's wrong with Lord Krishna? Or Cthulhu?

Their creation stories make no sense. Old Earth Creationism and the Day Age Interpretation of Genesis makes scientific sense.

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

The Bhagavad Gita and the stories of Lovecraft make at least as much sense as anything in your Bible. I've read the Bible, you know. "Scientific sense"?

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01-08-2017, 04:16 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(04-06-2016 11:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-06-2016 10:21 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I think there is a point to living a truth-based life, no matter what age you are.

I don't think there is any point at all in pulling the rug out from under an 80 year old person. Why should they have to live with deep depression for the rest of their lives? Everything they lived for will be destroyed. They don't recover like the young, not physically and not mentally.

Why would you want to ruin the rest of someone's life? So you can feel righteous?

I cannot imagine an 80 year old person capable of understanding that the shit they believed all their life is false.
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01-08-2017, 04:20 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(Today 04:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:
Their creation stories make no sense. Old Earth Creationism and the Day Age Interpretation of Genesis makes scientific sense.


Wanna flesh this out a bit for us? Put the blather from the first day into one age and the second day also etc... and then try to graft some sense onto it. Of the 7 Ages to make the earth part of one was used to make the sun and the moon and all the stars and the whole universe. Tell us how that becomes scienterrific.
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01-08-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 04:20 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  (Today 04:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:
Their creation stories make no sense. Old Earth Creationism and the Day Age Interpretation of Genesis makes scientific sense.


Wanna flesh this out a bit for us? Put the blather from the first day into one age and the second day also etc... and then try to graft some sense onto it. Of the 7 Ages to make the earth part of one was used to make the sun and the moon and all the stars and the whole universe. Tell us how that becomes scienterrific.

Especially when he made light several days before he got around to making the sources of the light.

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