Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
This poll is closed.
Peacefull reasoning 69.23% 9 69.23%
Full attack of facts 30.77% 4 30.77%
Total 13 votes 100%
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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02-08-2017, 04:03 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
The poll results in this thread are funny. 69.2 percent voted for peaceful reasoning and 30.8 percent voted a full attack of facts to get "them" to see the truth. I've seen very little of either in this thread from the atheists.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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02-08-2017, 05:38 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(02-08-2017 03:53 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  He may have known it would happen. There are times in the Bible where God chooses not to know, like when He has Adam name the animals to see what he will name them,...

I'm truly amazed at the contortions you go through to try to rationalize these fairy tales.

He knew what Adam would name everything but "turned off his all knowingness" (as Mr Deity would say) and made himself forget so he could watch Adam go through a pointless, predetermined exercise? I suppose that's also why he thought he could find a suitable mate for Adam among the animals.... of course that's only if you ignore the other chapter where man & woman were created together and don't care whether man was created before or after the other animals....

There was no Adam. There was no Eve. Humans can't be traced back to a single pair like that. That's not how evolution works. You need to take a break from just theology and read some actual science. If you think theology makes sense you might try basing beliefs on evidence instead of what "feels" right.

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02-08-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.



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02-08-2017, 10:15 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 02:45 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  2 Peter 3:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers... {snip}

What's your point? There have been scoffers as long as there have been rational people confronted by irrationality. Not *my* fault you believe totally barmy crap.

(02-08-2017 04:03 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  The poll results in this thread are funny. 69.2 percent voted for peaceful reasoning and 30.8 percent voted a full attack of facts to get "them" to see the truth. I've seen very little of either in this thread from the atheists.

That's because you're just spewing the same tired old nonsense we've dealt with hundreds of times before. It suffices to laugh and point and dismiss, rather than debate you.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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02-08-2017, 11:37 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(01-08-2017 02:47 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  His goal was not to save Himself but the world from itself. He atoned for our sins if we choose to truly believe in Him.

Well, for me it is a literal neurological impossibility to "truly believe" in the unspeakably immoral idea of a god that would require a blood sacrifice as an under-the-table payoff to itself, then demand under pain of eternal torture that we say "thank you" for such a ghastly and stupid way of doing things.

I can do better, god-wise. A lot better.

In fact, one could argue that I already have done better --
-- although I remain agnostic of My own divinity. Big Grin
I reject absolutely, unconditionally and for all eternity in all possible universes the alleged sacrifice of Jesus. If such a place as hell actually exists -- although I very much doubt it, as it's a concept even stupider than the faux sacrifice -- I choose to go there of my own free will to minister to anyone imprisoned therein. I do not worship torturer-gods, and I do not consent to anyone dying in my place.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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02-08-2017, 11:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2017 12:06 AM by morondog.)
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(02-08-2017 12:34 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 12:43 AM)morondog Wrote:  How did you conclude that young earth creationism was wrong? Why should I believe you that your God made the Earth? What makes you so confident that you have the True Religion, when there are 40 000 other sects?

YEC claims the earth is 6,000 years old which it clearly is not.

See signature links below for reasons to believe in creation. See posts above for some of my reasons in believing the Holy Scriptures.

I'm looking more for arguments in your own words. I have my own interests to waste time when I'm bored. If you want me to believe you, at least string a few sentences together.

For example. You say that the Earth is not 6000 years old. Please elaborate. What convinced *you* that the Earth is not 6000 years old. Hand waving "it clearly is not" doesn't tell me anything about why I should believe you. If I was a caveman to whom you were trying to explain the good news, how would you convince me?

As an example, if I contend to you that the Earth is flat, you could cite a number of reasons why this is an untrue belief to me:
  • Watching a ship disappear over the horizon, the body of the ship disappears before the sails.
  • At different latitudes different stars attain different heights in the night sky.
  • We have pictures of the Earth from space.
Note that I am not referring you to "theEarthIsNotFlat.org" or any such website. Note that I am citing these facts off the top of my head - the first to go back all the way to Aristotle IIRC. But if I wanted to I could easily dig deeper, find a few references, and quote them for you - if you accused me for example of making up these "facts", then I could refer you to some more credible source BUT and this is important, *I* would tell you *my* reasons for believing what I believe, not just say "read this entire website, or watch this video, and then you'll understand".

So once again:
  • Why do you believe the Earth is not 6000 years old?
  • Can you give me any reason to believe in your God? Why do you believe?

ETA: Please don't refer me to your previous posts either. I haven't seen anything beyond references to Bible verses and those are meaningless to me. If I believe in the healing power of Peter Pan and you ask me why and I cite the Spanish national anthem, that's kinda how meaningless you citing Bible verses is. Before we get to that, show that the Bible is a credible authority.

ETA: Saying you're an engineer like we're supposed to be impressed Laugh out load There are many of us who are in engineering or related professions. It might carry weight in Christian circles I guess.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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03-08-2017, 05:02 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(02-08-2017 11:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  Before we get to that, show that the Bible is a credible authority.

Quoted for emphasis.

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03-08-2017, 05:18 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
I'm really curious how you reconcile OEC with the story of Adam and Eve.

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03-08-2017, 05:39 AM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2017 06:02 AM by Cheerful Charlie.)
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(02-08-2017 04:03 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  The poll results in this thread are funny. 69.2 percent voted for peaceful reasoning and 30.8 percent voted a full attack of facts to get "them" to see the truth. I've seen very little of either in this thread from the atheists.

There are plenty of threads here in TTA where the reasons God doesn't exist are discussed. Why ignore that? The concepts of God we get from the Bible collapses when logically examined. These concepts contradict each other. God then is a false and bad hypothesis in and of itself, and anything the relies on God's existence as an explanation of it's existence and nature then is also false.

The Bible is filled with contradictory tall tales, faux history debunked by archaeology and silly myths. It's basic theology is self contradictory and obviously false. Again that is well discussed here in TTA. Why ignore that?

What part of all of this did you miss and do not understand?

For example, I have repeatedly posted about what I call the sub-goodnesses of God argument. God is said to be perfectly good. The Bible claims sub-goodnesses, God is fair, just, merciful, and compassionate. But then God is said to have decided from the beginning of creation who will be elect and who will not. If God decides Jane will be elect and saved, and John is not of the elected and is damned, arbitrarily, then God is not just, fair, merciful or compassionate. How many contradictions of this sort do you need to realize that Paul and other NT writers didn't know anything worth bothering with?

Why did not God from day one eliminate original sin, knowing it will destroy man's goodness and free will? We get no sense from the theists when we ask that question. And original sin is conspicuously absent in Genesis to boot.

How many things like this have you not bothered with understanding before attacking atheism for not having facts to back up that position? How many reasons to not believe do you need?

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

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03-08-2017, 05:53 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
A response on ID from me in a another thread:

Quote:I have to mention, why is it that hardcore theists never really follow through on this idea? To be honest "intelligent design" isn't so much of a bad theory, if it had the proof to back it up. IE: prehaps an alien race/thing created us via biological creation of some sort, again not saying I believe that, but it's more likely that "GOD DID IT" lol.

The point is, intelligent design implies that a being of some sort, whether it physical or "god" like, physically designed all animal + plant life on the earth, in such a way that they would know down to the last cell, of what does what, where certain things go etc.

That to me is far more complex, than suggesting things came about in certain orders of there own accord via the evolution process. All I can imagine is a being stood there with a human on a slab, and he's holding a spleen just wondering where to put it, like a spare car part or something. And if that's not how it happened, just poofing something to life also is not an answer.

If you can tell me how intelligent design is supposed to work, it might help.

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