Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
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Peacefull reasoning 69.23% 9 69.23%
Full attack of facts 30.77% 4 30.77%
Total 13 votes 100%
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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22-08-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  I understand the process but my point was it is clear there is design behind this very specific and complex system at works in the cell. It is undeniable. That is why I don't understand atheism.

You are claiming, perhaps without realizing it, that only an intelligent being could create the design apparent in the world. What you have to prove is that unintelligent processes like self-organization, abiogenesis, and evolution couldn't possibly have created the same apparent design. Further, you have no way of doing this since you obviously don't understand such processes to begin with. By dismissing them out-of-hand, you are saying loud and clear, "I don't understand basic science." That really isn't a problem we atheists can address, but I would suggest you read Big History for some of the science involved:

https://www.amazon.com/Big-History-Exami...ig+history
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22-08-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:50 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:44 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Name calling, insults,..., child's play...LOL. You have no response.

You even *know* what name calling is? The only childish thing here is your understanding of the world and how it works, as well as the need for a cosmic father figure to take care of all the hard parts of life as an adult. So, hush-a-bye, don't you cry, go to sleep, my little baby, when you wake, you shall have all the pretty little angels. And eternal life. Drinking Beverage

Nah, I just look for truth and the Lord is that truth. Sorry for your depressed lonely state. I pray for you.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 02:56 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:53 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  I understand the process but my point was it is clear there is design behind this very specific and complex system at works in the cell. It is undeniable. That is why I don't understand atheism.

You are claiming, perhaps without realizing it, that only an intelligent being could create the design apparent in the world. What you have to prove is that unintelligent processes like self-organization, abiogenesis, and evolution couldn't possibly have created the same apparent design. Further, you have no way of doing this since you obviously don't understand such processes to begin with. By dismissing them out-of-hand, you are saying loud and clear, "I don't understand basic science." That really isn't a problem we atheists can address, but I would suggest you read Big History for some of the science involved:

https://www.amazon.com/Big-History-Exami...ig+history

Information comes from intelligence. DNA acts as information. Information so complex it boggles the most brightest human mind. DNA comes from intelligence. Time to turn to theology.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:50 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:42 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  So your response is just to smear me. Very intellectual and mature conversation and discussion on this argument. You have no response.
Stating simple facts is not "smearing". You either do or don't understand, are or are not irritating, and it is either true that facts and feelings inform each other reliably or not.

Quit taking simple disagreement or failure to be impressed with your ideas as an existential threat.

Her little insults are mere child's play.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Peace to you all by the way. I have nothing personally against you. I actually pray for you all to see the truth.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 02:58 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2017 03:02 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:56 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Information comes from intelligence. DNA acts as information. Information so complex it boggles the most brightest human mind. DNA comes from intelligence. Time to turn to theology.

Even if DNA acts as information now doesn't prove it acted as information at its origin. Again, read the science first if you want to talk with atheists.

(By the way, I usually have you on ignore exactly because you are so obviously dismissive of what you don't understand. In other words, you are projecting your own problems on us.)
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22-08-2017, 02:59 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:30 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Where do the information bearing properties of DNA come from?

What "information bearing properties"? DNA is just molecules doing what they do.

Quote:No honest atheist or skeptic can answer this question. DNA is a code.

It is a meaningless question. DNA is not a code unless you pre-suppose that it was intentionally designed as one.

Quote: Where do these complex molecular machines come from? With a basic level of understanding this incredible code is proof of design and creation.

With a better understanding you see how natural selection operates to create these "complex molecular machines" and that no designer appears to be necessary.

Quote:Creation is too obvious so I do not understand how there can still be atheists. I am not saying this to anger anyone. Based on the facts it is simply how I feel.

I don't understand how there can be people who think that nature is too complex to develop naturally so there has to be an even more complex designer that didn't need to be designed. It's just bizarre that they don't see the paradox in their beliefs. I also don't understand how anybody can say "I don't understand how X came to be therefore I know it was a god". "God" becomes just a label to slap on anything we don't know.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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22-08-2017, 02:59 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:54 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Nah, I just look for truth and the Lord is that truth. Sorry for your depressed lonely state. I pray for you.


[Image: jsHZ4n.gif]

Also, if your slavemaster is the truth, you've found it and are not really looking for it, are you? Drinking Beverage

You pray for us, we'll think for you. I even have the T-shirt. Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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22-08-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:57 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:50 PM)mordant Wrote:  Stating simple facts is not "smearing". You either do or don't understand, are or are not irritating, and it is either true that facts and feelings inform each other reliably or not.

Quit taking simple disagreement or failure to be impressed with your ideas as an existential threat.

Her little insults are mere child's play.
To the very limited extent they are insults it doesn't matter. To the massive extent they are factual, they're a threat to your counterfactual belief system.

Quit whining and address the actual points presented. Refute them if you can.
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22-08-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:56 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Information comes from intelligence.

Intelligence creates information from data.

Quote:DNA acts as information.

DNA is source of data on which intelligence can operate. It can also be manipulated by the environment in an entirely unguided manner.

Quote: Information so complex it boggles the most brightest human mind. DNA comes from intelligence. Time to turn to theology.

The amount of data involved in predicting the weather is far too complex for even our most powerful computers and yet the weather unfolds without any need for guidance. DNA comes from evolution. Throwing up your hands and saying "god did it" is not an answer, nor does it advance your understanding in any way. It's a way to delude yourself into thinking you have the answer rather than being honest and admitting there is still much to learn.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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