Poll: How do we get them to see the truth?
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Peacefull reasoning 69.23% 9 69.23%
Full attack of facts 30.77% 4 30.77%
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Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
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22-08-2017, 03:21 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:50 PM)mordant Wrote:  Quit taking simple disagreement or failure to be impressed with your ideas as an existential threat.

I mean, CDF47, you're free to piss off if it is such a big deal. Fucken evangelists lite. You're not doing any good in the world you know, you're just masturbating for Jesus. A person who really cared about doing good wouldn't waste time where they weren't welcome, and they'd concentrate on actually making a difference, rather than focusing on whether or not some people believed their particular fairy tale.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-08-2017, 04:33 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:59 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:54 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Nah, I just look for truth and the Lord is that truth. Sorry for your depressed lonely state. I pray for you.


[Image: jsHZ4n.gif]

Also, if your slavemaster is the truth, you've found it and are not really looking for it, are you? Drinking Beverage

You pray for us, we'll think for you. I even have the T-shirt. Drinking Beverage

Fair enough. Peace to you. Thanks for thinking of me.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 04:35 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 03:08 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:56 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Information comes from intelligence.

Intelligence creates information from data.

Quote:DNA acts as information.

DNA is source of data on which intelligence can operate. It can also be manipulated by the environment in an entirely unguided manner.

Quote: Information so complex it boggles the most brightest human mind. DNA comes from intelligence. Time to turn to theology.

The amount of data involved in predicting the weather is far too complex for even our most powerful computers and yet the weather unfolds without any need for guidance. DNA comes from evolution. Throwing up your hands and saying "god did it" is not an answer, nor does it advance your understanding in any way. It's a way to delude yourself into thinking you have the answer rather than being honest and admitting there is still much to learn.

With DNA and the fine-tuning of the universe the argument is over. No honest scientist, engineer, or mathematician that understands how DNA works or how fine-tuned the universe is from it's creation in the big bang could ever state it happened by dumb random chance. I've met numerous engineers and scientists and only a couple were agnostic or atheist. Nearly all of them believe there is a Creator.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 03:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-08-2017 02:50 PM)mordant Wrote:  Quit taking simple disagreement or failure to be impressed with your ideas as an existential threat.

I mean, CDF47, you're free to piss off if it is such a big deal. Fucken evangelists lite. You're not doing any good in the world you know, you're just masturbating for Jesus. A person who really cared about doing good wouldn't waste time where they weren't welcome, and they'd concentrate on actually making a difference, rather than focusing on whether or not some people believed their particular fairy tale.

No thanks. I'd rather spend some time talking to you all from time to time. Besides, you know you would miss me if I left.

The LORD Exists: http://www.godandscience.org/
Intelligent Design (Short Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVkdQhNdzHU
Intelligent Design (Longer Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
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22-08-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 04:33 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Fair enough. Peace to you. Thanks for thinking of me.


FOR you. As in - instead of you. Cause we can all see you're struggling. Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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22-08-2017, 05:08 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
Quote:I am not saying this to anger anyone. Based on the facts it is simply how I feel.

If you were saying this in a church then I might believe you. On an atheist forum it seems a wee bit disingenuous. Or did one of these bastards light the grail-shaped beacon?

(22-08-2017 02:30 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  Where do the information bearing properties of DNA come from?

Very nearly any medium can bear information.

Mud will retain the impression of whatever walked through it and a skilled tracker can read that information. Are we now invoking intelligently designed mud?

DNA contains information that comes from its environment so that it can most effectively interact with that environment to make more of itself.

If you think that this was created then perhaps you can explain why the genetic code reads less like the well-crafted set of instructions that one might expect from a competent deity and more like a phonebook that's been run through a paper shredder and recycled into several different egg cartons. It *looks* very organic and a whole lot like what we'd expect from a natural process.

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22-08-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 04:35 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  I've met numerous engineers and scientists and only a couple were agnostic or atheist. Nearly all of them believe there is a Creator.

You must hang with a very odd crowd. In my experience scientists are <50% believers and the theists are quicker to shoot down creationists than us atheists.

I'm a geologist specializing in geochemistry and geochronology. I'm spending next week studying 2.9 billion year old stromatolites in an attempt to improve our understanding of the Earth's early oceans and atmosphere.

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22-08-2017, 06:43 PM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 04:35 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  With DNA and the fine-tuning of the universe the argument is over.

There is no reason to assume that anything is fine-tuned or designed. The argument is over because there's just no argument except personal incredulity and that's worthless.

I know this has been posted for you before and I'd bet you haven't watched it but for others who may be lurking...




Quote:No honest scientist, engineer, or mathematician that understands how DNA works or how fine-tuned the universe is from it's creation in the big bang could ever state it happened by dumb random chance.

You may be right. I wouldn't think any scientist that said that was very reliable. Chance is a part of the process but reactions are constrained and natural selection provides a mechanism for evolution without intelligent guidance. It's a shame that some people aren't willing to see the beauty in what occurs naturally and instead prefer to cling to ignorant superstitions.

Quote: I've met numerous engineers and scientists and only a couple were agnostic or atheist. Nearly all of them believe there is a Creator.

You move in limited circles and anecdotal experience is as worthless as the arguments from incredulity.
http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scien...nd-belief/

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23-08-2017, 12:22 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 04:35 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  With DNA and the fine-tuning of the universe the argument is over. No honest scientist, engineer, or mathematician that understands how DNA works or how fine-tuned the universe is from it's creation in the big bang could ever state it happened by dumb random chance. I've met numerous engineers and scientists and only a couple were agnostic or atheist. Nearly all of them believe there is a Creator.

You have no basis for these wild claims. Claiming no "honest" scientist would do X is pure bullshit - you've just admitted that you're not a scientist, what the FUCK would you know? You claim to speak for *all* honest scientists, yet all you've done apparently is talk to a few who agree with you. The arrogance it takes to make a leap like that is fucken unbelievable, except that you're obviously too goddamn dense to recognise what a stupid statement it is.

Dodgy Fucken snake-oil merchant.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-08-2017, 05:43 AM
RE: Belief vs Facts in the programed religious mind.
(22-08-2017 02:40 PM)CDF47 Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)unfogged Wrote:  You are an OEC and yet you believe in Adam and Eve? There were no such people.


but punished them, and all their descendants for an action that they could not possibly have understood was wrong.... it's a good thing your god doesn't exist because he's an incompetent monster


he said they die the day they ate the fruit. He lied.


Some perfect being... gets mad at his own creation for not doing what he wanted it to do. How fucking immature and incompetent is that?


The 10 commandments (no matter which of the versions you pick) are not a good guide. Most of them are not concerned with morals or ethics and the ones that do relate are too generalized to be of any practical use. Many of the rest of the 613 commandments are downright barbaric.


Which, as I've said, I consider to be an immoral concept.


No, it doesn't. The order of events in genesis are simply wrong. All the hand-waving and "interpretation" can't change that. It's an attempt by primitive people to explain the world and has no bearing on science.


Citations required. Cherry picking verses and saying that because they bear a value resemblance to later events only illustrates how gullible you are.


I love it how things are literal when convenient and parables when inconvenient.


No, it doesn't. If you are referring to Y-chromosome Eve and X-chromosome Adam then you are seriously misunderstanding the science.


"outside the universe" and "transcends time" are meaningless phrases and neither has anything to do with relativity within the universe


Try listening to an actual scientist instead of an apologist in a lab coat for a change





Your personal incredulity and ignorance are not evidence for anything


Another absolutely meaningless phrase


Try studying science instead of theology. Theology has no process for distinguishing reality from fantasy and is unable to arrive at any useful conclusions about anything.

(22-08-2017 02:36 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  From rna, which build off amino acids, which come out of basic compounds.

None the less. Any notion of unsolved notions is a poor reasoning to substitute something. That's the glaring problem of assumed design.

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I understand the process but my point was it is clear there is design behind this very specific and complex system at works in the cell. It is undeniable. That is why I don't understand atheism.
It apparently doesn't make sense to you because you can't grasp behind your assumptions. The critical thinking expanse beyond it shows it'd clearly not clear. Any philosophical query of assuming design without understanding a designer is a faulty logic, why assertive creator credences make less sense.

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