Belief without the Bible
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08-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Belief without the Bible
"Because the Bible says . . . "

This seems to be the standard statement that theists make when debating topics like creation, morality, afterlife, etc. Indeed the Bible is often used as "evidence" to support those beliefs. Even the most complex and seemimgly scientific theistic answer has at its root a Biblical origin.

My question: Without the Bible is there any evidence to support the beliefs that the religious hold ?

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08-01-2012, 01:26 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 01:24 PM)free2011 Wrote:  "Because the Bible says . . . "

This seems to be the standard statement that theists make when debating topics like creation, morality, afterlife, etc. Indeed the Bible is often used as "evidence" to support those beliefs. Even the most complex and seemimgly scientific theistic answer has at its root a Biblical origin.

My question: Without the Bible is there any evidence to support the beliefs that the religious hold ?

My answer: With the Bible is there any evidence to support the beliefs that the religious hold ?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-01-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 01:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 01:24 PM)free2011 Wrote:  My question: Without the Bible is there any evidence to support the beliefs that the religious hold ?
My answer: With the Bible is there any evidence to support the beliefs that the religious hold ?

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08-01-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 01:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  My answer: With the Bible is there any evidence to support the beliefs that the religious hold ?

Agreed. However, have you also found that the only rationale a believer ever gives is rooted in the Bible? It amazes me that millions of intelligent people hold beliefs based on this ancient book alone. As much as I try I just can't get my head around the absurdity of it. It seems that any critical thinker couldn't possbily come to the conclusion that the Bible accurately answers questions when so much modern scientific data explains reality much better.

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08-01-2012, 02:18 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
People also often cite personal experience or tradition as "evidence" for their beliefs.
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08-01-2012, 02:25 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 02:18 PM)Ben Wrote:  People also often cite personal experience or tradition as "evidence" for their beliefs.

Would you say those personal experiences and traditions have a bible origin. For instance, a life after death experience. The only reason for the concept of life after death is biblical in origin. Without the bible (or similar book) the very idea of an existence beyond physical life wouldn't be around.

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08-01-2012, 02:46 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 02:25 PM)free2011 Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 02:18 PM)Ben Wrote:  People also often cite personal experience or tradition as "evidence" for their beliefs.

Would you say those personal experiences and traditions have a bible origin. For instance, a life after death experience. The only reason for the concept of life after death is biblical in origin. Without the bible (or similar book) the very idea of an existence beyond physical life wouldn't be around.

Well, for Christians, anyway. There is the Quran for Islam. Jews have several books they constantly debate about. There is the Book Of Mormon. L Ron Hubbard wrote Dianetics. Quite a lot of fictitious crap is always being produced.
I like reading but sheesh!

What would life be like if we all based our lives on our favorite book? There's a scary thought!! Wink

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08-01-2012, 03:13 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 02:18 PM)Ben Wrote:  What would life be like if we all based our lives on our favorite book? There's a scary thought!! Wink

I would be the best pokemon trainer around Big Grin

But i think the belief in afterlife stems from a place other than the bible,
a mixture of want of cosmic justic to people who escape justice in life,
the natural will to survive and fear of the unknown.

Evidence for that cosmic justice part could be found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, where mortals were solely judged by their actions, good deeds and bad deeds and belief or lack of it to some extent were not considered in this judgement.

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08-01-2012, 04:29 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
(08-01-2012 02:46 PM)kim Wrote:  What would life be like if we all based our lives on our favorite book? There's a scary thought!! Wink

I might have a nice mithril haubergeon.

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08-01-2012, 06:59 PM
RE: Belief without the Bible
Hey, Free.

The Bible is not a document of fact. Some people might snigger when they read that, but I'm being quite serious. It is a chronicle of revelation. Revelation is a different knowledge source than scientific testing. At the end of the day, the Bible is not evidence in the empirical sense, it is revelation.

When you say that things are explained better now, you are demonstrating a cultural bias. You believe its better, but I doubt you could provide a single empirical study that would support that claim. I'm not saying it's shit, but if we're professing the merits of science, then all bias and assumption should be eliminated.

But you hit the nail on the head. You'll never understand it because you give primary value to empiricism. Those who use the Bible as their basis for reality (and not all Christians do that, but to those who do) revelation is given primary value. So when you ask them "how do you know" they say, "because it was revealed and I have the documentation of that revelation right here."

It's apples and oranges.

Not only that, but to a lover of evidence, revelation seems cockamamie and to a lover of revelation, evidence seems false. Chyagonnado?

So to answer your question, there never has been any evidence. There has only ever been revelation. The Bible merely chronicles it. If there was no Bible, meaning there was no chronicle, then no, they wouldn't have their revelation. If there was another chronicle or a living chronicler, then they'd still have it.

The conflation of the two ideas is likely the result of bitter argument.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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