Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
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21-09-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  We’re always encouraged to translate the bible in the most lenient manner possible when a person’s feelings, sensitivities, or life are on the line. We’re here on this world to experience living; to partake in as many joys as possible before we die, and to treat our fellow man with as much respect and dignity as possible. That’s the top priority.

Rather than flirt with you shamelessly right now, I'm just gonna skip ahead to the embarrassed face. Blush

That was pretty awesome. Thumbsup

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21-09-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 09:27 AM)morondog Wrote:  What is your view of homosexuality, sex before marriage, sex with multiple partners, sex with common vegetables, sex with toys, sex with oneself, sex with inanimate objects?

I vaguely am being serious Tongue

It’s a good question. I will try to answer it vaguely seriously. Smile

But before I do, let me first explain that there are two categories of Torah violations. The first is man against man, and the second is man against G-d. In the first, we take action in this world. If you’re caught stealing, then this is a violation against another person, and we’ll put you in jail. If you’re doing something for which there are no victims, as is the case with man against G-d violations, then we just let G-d handle it. –Before you protest, I’m aware that the bible says, “And he shall surely be put to death…” It’s just that we don’t murder people for such things and we do have religious precedence for choosing not to take action. I’m not going to get into the details about all of that, especially since you want to know about sex. Please just trust me, we let G-d work out the man against G-d sins.

Homosexuality

Okay, so on the books, sex between two males is regarded as a sin, but don’t stop reading with this first sentence. There’s more to say on the matter.

What people forget is that NO COMMANDMENT is incumbent on a person who cannot keep that commandment. Meaning, if a heterosexual person engages in homosexuality because they’re drunk and horny, then this is a sin against G-d (we don't address those). A male who is born homosexual is not required to keep this commandment because he can’t. Lesbianism, by the way, is not a sin at all.

This article and short interview with an Orthodox Rabbi covers it nicely.

More and more, I’m seeing attitudes like the one expressed in the link above replacing the old-school attitudes of “It’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!” which dominated western culture in the past.

Sex before marriage:

This is not a sin, provided that they’re not sleeping with someone who is otherwise forbidden to them. This would be a sibling, a parent, or the spouse of a parent, or someone else’s spouse.

Everyone else is open game. Have fun, use a condom.

Sex with common vegetables, toys or ones self:

For females, there is no restriction what-so-ever. Have fun!

For males, is worth mentioning that the spilling of seed does technically violate a Torah prohibition, but this is a man against G-d violation, so we humans don’t need to interfere. What a male does by himself is his own business, not ours. I've never heard this addressed in any religious service in my entire life. People just don't worry about this in Jewish circles.

Judaism is a fluid religion. There are some things that we cannot change, but there are plenty of others which can change and must change to adapt to an ever-changing world. As we learn more about humanity and the universe in which we live, we’re encouraged to reevaluate Torah for the possibility of past misunderstandings. We’re always encouraged to translate the bible in the most lenient manner possible when a person’s feelings, sensitivities, or life are on the line. We’re here on this world to experience living; to partake in as many joys as possible before we die, and to treat our fellow man with as much respect and dignity as possible. That’s the top priority.

I have to admit I have spent zero time studying Judaism as it doesn't affect me here in America. I found this post very enlightening, thanks for sharing. I love the "we let god deal with man to god sins"...wish other religions had that view.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-09-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 11:21 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I have to admit I have spent zero time studying Judaism as it doesn't affect me here in America. I found this post very enlightening, thanks for sharing. I love the "we let god deal with man to god sins"...wish other religions had that view.

No shit, huh. Dodgy

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21-09-2015, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 12:12 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 11:21 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ...
But before I do, let me first explain that there are two categories of Torah violations. The first is man against man, and the second is man against G-d. In the first, we take a
ction in this world.
...
...
I love the "we let god deal with man to god sins"...wish other religions had that view.

Who d'ya think invented that ol' separation of church and state shebang? The Murikans?

Also claiming ....
Individual rights and duties.
Weekends
Documentaries.

Big Grin

(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
Lesbianism, by the way, is not a sin at all.
...

That's because it's just property. Same reason that if your ass or your goat had sex with another ass or goat ... so what, already.

(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
Sex before marriage:

This is not a sin, provided that they’re not sleeping with someone who is otherwise forbidden to them. This would be a sibling, a parent, or the spouse of a parent, or someone else’s spouse.
...

Don't forget someone else's slave-girl. That's just not done. Bad form.

(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
treat our fellow man with as much respect and dignity as possible.
...

With the emphasis on man.

Drinking Beverage

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21-09-2015, 12:15 PM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
Fucking buzzkill. Angel

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21-09-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
I can't really tell if you're being playfully sarcastic or not. If you were, then kindly read my response with SAME playfully sarcastic tone in which you wrote your reply.Tongue If you were NOT being playfully sarcastic, then please read my reply with a polite tone masking an undertone of indignation. Angry And then, of course, we can carry on agreeing to disagree.

(21-09-2015 12:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Lesbianism, by the way, is not a sin at all.
That's because it's just property. Same reason that if your ass or your goat had sex with another ass or goat ... so what, already.

Are you suggesting that the Torah views women as property? I disagree, but I can see if you’re an outsider looking in, how you might draw that conclusion.

Where I really disagree is in characterizing modern-day Judaism as being a religion and culture which objectifies women, or treats women as second-class citizens.

Jewish women are educated, they’re the heads of their households, they hold jobs, they have their own money, and their opinions and views are respected by the entire community. They choose who they marry, and no one chooses for them. Not to say that this can’t be happening in Chassidic or Haredi circles, it’s just that it has been my experience that woman don’t report feeling like property to be traded about; they are contributing members of society with an equal voice.

(21-09-2015 12:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Sex before marriage:
This is not a sin, provided that they’re not sleeping with someone who is otherwise forbidden to them. This would be a sibling, a parent, or the spouse of a parent, or someone else’s spouse.
Don't forget someone else's slave-girl. That's just not done. Bad form.

HAH! You know it’s funny… I’ve never known a slave before. I’ll bet even if I ask around, no one will report to being a slave, owning a slave, or knowing a slave.
I suspect that if you walked the streets of Jerusalem, you’ll still not find any slaves even though that city is just crawling with Jews. Smile

(21-09-2015 12:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  treat our fellow man with as much respect and dignity as possible.
With the emphasis on man.

Yes! That's what I said.

-Or were you suggesting that men are given more respect than women? Allow me to clarify my position. I meant all humans. ALL people regardless of religion, race, gender, gender identification, sexual orientation, cultural background, age, handicap, marital status, or nationality are who I was referring to when I said “man”.
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21-09-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
I'm thinking DLJ's snark was directed towards the originators of Torah and what clearly seems to be their intent.

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21-09-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 01:34 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I can't really tell if you're being playfully sarcastic or not.
...

Yup. That's my M.O.

Angel

(21-09-2015 01:34 PM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
If you were, then kindly read my response with SAME playfully sarcastic tone in which you wrote your reply.Tongue If you were NOT being playfully sarcastic, then please read my reply with a polite tone masking an undertone of indignation. Angry And then, of course, we can carry on agreeing to disagree.

I confess a chortle escaped an orifice at that. Laugh out load

(21-09-2015 01:34 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Jewish women are educated, they’re the heads of their households, they hold jobs, they have their own money, and their opinions and views are respected by the entire community.

Perfect description of my mum.

(21-09-2015 10:25 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
Judaism is a fluid religion.
...

This point was well made.

And rightly negates any accusation of hypocrisy.

By contrast, it's the main sticking point for 'moderate' muslims who recognise change and practice it but cannot admit it openly.

With christianity, the obvious fluidity (the memetic evolution to Tao (as HoC and Girly oft point out)) is disguised as cherry-picking.

It's also the reason why the tiny proportion of Jews who visit here don't get the mud-slung.

Although there was that one time ... the Dirty Lying Jew thing.

Wink

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21-09-2015, 02:04 PM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 01:59 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Although there was that one time ... the Dirty Lying Jew thing.

What dirty lying Jew thing is that?
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21-09-2015, 02:06 PM
RE: Believe and now before it's too late.(With Science and Archaeology evidence for God)
(21-09-2015 01:59 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Although there was that one time ... the Dirty Lying Jew thing.

Seriously wanted to punch that guy in the nuts. Angry

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