Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
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03-10-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
Below is a post I made in ChristianForums.com; I would like to know what atheists think of what I said. You know I'm not going to get a discussion there on it, so I thought I'd give it a whirl over here.

Here goes:

Spiritlight;61497718 Wrote:Mutual respect for each others beliefs is the beginning of understanding. Logic has its place but is not all there is. Intuition is as relevant as logic. Just because intuition is not as easily replicated as logical anlasys does not discount its importance as tool for finding God.

Well stated, but in my opinion wholly incorrect. Intuition leads to belief, but it doesn't lead to truth, or if it does lead to truth, it does so only by happenstance.

Logic leads to truth. If logic doesn't lead to truth, then there is no mechanism by which human beings can ascertain the truth in any reliable way. So, if God is found through intuition, then God has utterly hidden himself from humanity.

As I have stated, I believe God exists. But I believe only God exists and everything else we think exists is really part of God owing its existence to being of God's substance. I can demonstrate this with logical arguments--irrefutable logical arguments, in my opinion. But that God is not a Christian God. In fact, if that God exists, religion of any kind is most likely pointless.

Now, which way is better? In your way, there is a supreme being whom you worship and who loves you and will act in ways that are beneficial to you because of that love. But since you don't understand what He understands you may, in the final analysis, find yourself to suffer as much as anyone else.

In my way, there is no Supreme Being to worship--God is as alone in existence as He ever has been. His creation is merely his dream, and our consciousness is merely his consciousness within the dream. There is nothing to pray to; there is no love except his self-love (which explains why Jesus thought the second commandment was like the first, that is to love your neighbor as yourself was the same as loving God). And there is no real individual identity among persons. Thus we find ourselves to suffer about the same as everyone else.

Do you want to discuss this, or are you just going to walk away with Bible in hand hoping I'll respect your belief enough to leave you alone in your delusion?
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03-10-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 11:28 AM)Egor Wrote:  Below is a post I made in ChristianForums.com; I would like to know what atheists think of what I said. You know I'm not going to get a discussion there on it, so I thought I'd give it a whirl over here.

Here goes:

Spiritlight;61497718 Wrote:Mutual respect for each others beliefs is the beginning of understanding. Logic has its place but is not all there is. Intuition is as relevant as logic. Just because intuition is not as easily replicated as logical anlasys does not discount its importance as tool for finding God.

Well stated, but in my opinion wholly incorrect. Intuition leads to belief, but it doesn't lead to truth, or if it does lead to truth, it does so only by happenstance.

Logic leads to truth. If logic doesn't lead to truth, then there is no mechanism by which human beings can ascertain the truth in any reliable way. So, if God is found through intuition, then God has utterly hidden himself from humanity.

As I have stated, I believe God exists. But I believe only God exists and everything else we think exists is really part of God owing its existence to being of God's substance. I can demonstrate this with logical arguments--irrefutable logical arguments, in my opinion. But that God is not a Christian God. In fact, if that God exists, religion of anykind is most likely pointless.

Now, which way is better? In your way, there is a supreme being who you worship and who loves you and will act in ways that are beneficial to you because of that love. But since you don't understand what He understands you may, in the final analysis, find yourself to suffer as much as anyone else.

In my way, there is no Supreme Being to worship--God is as alone in existence as He ever has been. His creation is merely his dream, and our consciousness is merely his consciousness within the dream. There is nothing to pray to; there is no love except his self-love (which explains why Jesus thought the second commandment was like the first, that is to love your neighbor as yourself was the same as loving God). And there is no real individual identity among persons. Thus we find ourselves to suffer about the same as everyone else.

Do you want to discuss this, or are you just going to walk away with Bible in hand hoping I'll respect your belief enough to leave you alone in your delusion?

I believe I will leave you alone in your delusion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2012, 11:43 AM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
Logic is a subset of emotion, not separate. If we didn't know when we were being emotional, how could we know when we were being logical? But for all its utility, logic suffers from paradox. For which in my case the solution is discrete mathematics, for the rest of humanity, mathematics is logic 2.0, so...

And god can't hide from no dang prophet, you know that.

So what you're saying here is accepting the axiom "god exists" is futile without empirical testing through a form of truth tables, then sure. Mine is oc "I love my Gwynnies," but where me and you as atheists differ from the theist is in recognizing the questioning never stops. Perhaps.

Hate that closed-minded theist bullshit, but as I operate under agenda, I refuse to commit to "god exists" in mixed company. My Gwynnies ain't really Gwyneth Paltrow, and there ain't knowing no god that can be communicated, beyond axiom. Alla them texts just confuse the axiom that YHWH is just the number four. Angry

...and Chas, stop lying. You can't leave shit alone. Big Grin

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03-10-2012, 11:51 AM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
It's all nice until you say everything is god and all that thing you keep saying about everything being god and whatnot... you seem to have issues about things being different from each other, and that sounds more like emotional/intuitive thinking rather than logical reasoning.

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03-10-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 11:28 AM)Egor Wrote:  Intuition leads to belief, but it doesn't lead to truth, or if it does lead to truth, it does so only by happenstance.

I'm going to pass on commenting on anything other than this sentence.

I think intuition is a valid thing to take into consideration.

I believe intuition occurs when the brain has some relating items registered, but not processed properly.

These items pop up as intuition, and you know they are not facts but the brain is offering you all it's got on the matter, for you to evaluate as you may.

Sometimes it's wrong, and sometimes it's right, as I said, it's not been processed properly and is not filed as fact.

So neither ignoring nor relying on it are good courses of action.

It is there to be factored into the sum of considerations.

If it's one of many items that pop up, you can just make it part of the whole.

If it's all you've got, and you trust your brain, it may be a good idea to listen to it. Then again, it might not.

"Gut feeling" is the other name for it.

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03-10-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
I gotta say, that was not altogether clear for me (perhaps the time has something to do with it...).

I agree with your statement that Intuition leads to faith not truth, or to truth through happen-stance.

However logic alone is prone to failure in many situations.
(Although I must say the "intuitive" belief in god espoused by the person you seem to be quoting is equal to the apparent faith you seem to hold for your beliefs in regards to viability for determining what is true. Neither are viable options for the determination of truth.)

As for your points on your Representing & Alternative viewpoints, I feel neither are viable and both would seem to have a lack support for their conclusions, and thus are unjustified.


As for your sign off, I say but one thing: Do not respect their beliefs, nor should they (or we) respect yours!

Good day. Smile

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03-10-2012, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2012 12:25 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 11:28 AM)Egor Wrote:  As I have stated, I believe God exists. But I believe only God exists and everything else we think exists is really part of God owing its existence to being of God's substance. I can demonstrate this with logical arguments--irrefutable logical arguments, in my opinion. But that God is not a Christian God. In fact, if that God exists, religion of any kind is most likely pointless.
We've been over this already. The arguments you use are based on anecdotal evidence and are therefore not logically irrefutable.

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03-10-2012, 12:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2012 12:50 PM by Marco Krieger.)
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
?

Please be so kind and clarify your effort.
Maybe it's my lack of english gramma, but i have read your text above nearly 10 times and i am unable to find the clou inside.
In the first part of the text, you stated, you have made an post on a religios website.
Then you quoted the thing, and the next stepp you made is, you criticise your own text?
Ähm... are you in a state of multiple personality?

I try to give you my opinion about logic and intuition, ok?
I am an Atheist, so i managed to be qualified in the first place.
Logic is a tool, but i did not use it to find or deny god. I use it to find out what other human beings like you are up to.
Logic is the intention to organize things, so that we are able to do our live.
Logic dictates that i use now english gramma to communicate with you, because you are most likely a native english speaker, right?
If i typ in my laptop, mwshipqgjs lmsjsjms kiztgasd67898sjnsbs, .....ojjhsaguig, then the chance, you can have a conversation with my, is near zero.
Most of the time logic works with cause and effect. And most of the time there is an other player in the game.
In german, we call him our "Bauchgefühl", that means a feeling or inspiration that comes from the upper middel of your body, and no, i dont mean you genital.
Its also well known as intuition.
Intuition works like your god, in mysterious ways.
Most of the time, we are not even aware of it, but it is still working.
You drive home every day the same way in your car? Sometimes you are suddenly find yourself in front of your garage and you did not have a clou, how do you get from your workingplace to where you now?
Intuition has made it.
You drive by intuition the whole way, you stopped on the right sign, you pay attention to the rule right befor left, you even chose the right speed, by unintentional use of intuition.
I dont want to stress this any further, i just want you to know that i use both of them, one of them intentional.

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03-10-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
Marco, if I read it right, he is commenting on the post that was quoted. He reposted his response to it.

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03-10-2012, 12:35 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2012 12:38 PM by Marco Krieger.)
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 12:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Marco, if I read it right, he is commenting on the post that was quoted. He reposted his response to it.

In the very first sentence he stated that he wrote the thing and want to know what we think about he wrote.
Below is a post I made in ChristianForums.com; I would like to know what atheists think of what I said. You know I'm not going to get a discussion there on it, so I thought I'd give it a whirl over here.
Its a bit tricky, is'nt it?

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