Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
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03-10-2012, 01:32 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 01:28 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 01:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  What's a horlicks?
Ahem, I'll just leave this here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horlicks

kthxbye

You realize you just made Erxy's afternoon. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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03-10-2012, 01:32 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 01:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 12:41 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Where's my horlicks?

What's a horlicks?

It's a chargeable bedtime service.

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03-10-2012, 01:38 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 01:32 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 01:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  What's a horlicks?

It's a chargeable bedtime service.

Oh, lol!

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-10-2012, 01:43 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 11:28 AM)Egor Wrote:  Logic leads to truth. If logic doesn't lead to truth, then there is no mechanism by which human beings can ascertain the truth in any reliable way.

Beautifully stated Smile

I liked your post. Your God is a rather nice fellow. I could get along with him. Do get along with him, apparently Tongue
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03-10-2012, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2012 06:34 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
Like morondog, I can get behind that interpretation of God, Egor, it's very close to my own. I am my own personal Jesus. My own personal Savior. And reason proved to be an invaluable tool for realizing this.

(03-10-2012 11:28 AM)Egor Wrote:  I can demonstrate this with logical arguments--irrefutable logical arguments, in my opinion.

You can irrefutably demonstrate the validity of an argument, but there are very few, if any, arguments applied outside of a formal system where you can irrefutably demonstrate their soundness. The premises must be self-evident and incontrovertible and those are few and far between, if any exist at all. ... But I liked the rest of it. Thumbsup

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-10-2012, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2012 08:42 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 11:43 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Logic is a subset of emotion, not separate. If we didn't know when we were being emotional, how could we know when we were being logical?

No. Ummmm... no. Logic does not require emotion in any way, shape, or form. Logic is a subset of math, just done with words instead of numbers. In fact, any logical premises and conclusion can be written like a math function. And just like math, emotion is not needed to write. understand, or identify a logical argument. In fact, I'm pretty certain completely emotionless computers are capable of recognizing logical operators.

I don't think you're describing any form of logic that I'm aware of.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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03-10-2012, 08:41 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 11:28 AM)Egor Wrote:  Below is a post I made in ChristianForums.com; I would like to know what atheists think of what I said. You know I'm not going to get a discussion there on it, so I thought I'd give it a whirl over here.

Here goes:

Spiritlight;61497718 Wrote:Mutual respect for each others beliefs is the beginning of understanding. Logic has its place but is not all there is. Intuition is as relevant as logic. Just because intuition is not as easily replicated as logical anlasys does not discount its importance as tool for finding God.

Well stated, but in my opinion wholly incorrect. Intuition leads to belief, but it doesn't lead to truth, or if it does lead to truth, it does so only by happenstance.

Logic leads to truth. If logic doesn't lead to truth, then there is no mechanism by which human beings can ascertain the truth in any reliable way. So, if God is found through intuition, then God has utterly hidden himself from humanity.

As I have stated, I believe God exists. But I believe only God exists and everything else we think exists is really part of God owing its existence to being of God's substance. I can demonstrate this with logical arguments--irrefutable logical arguments, in my opinion. But that God is not a Christian God. In fact, if that God exists, religion of any kind is most likely pointless.

Now, which way is better? In your way, there is a supreme being whom you worship and who loves you and will act in ways that are beneficial to you because of that love. But since you don't understand what He understands you may, in the final analysis, find yourself to suffer as much as anyone else.

In my way, there is no Supreme Being to worship--God is as alone in existence as He ever has been. His creation is merely his dream, and our consciousness is merely his consciousness within the dream. There is nothing to pray to; there is no love except his self-love (which explains why Jesus thought the second commandment was like the first, that is to love your neighbor as yourself was the same as loving God). And there is no real individual identity among persons. Thus we find ourselves to suffer about the same as everyone else.

Do you want to discuss this, or are you just going to walk away with Bible in hand hoping I'll respect your belief enough to leave you alone in your delusion?

I'm so proud! My little Egor is all grown up!

Kidding aside, I like your argument. I love the line "so, if God is found through intuition, then God has utterly hidden himself from humanity" and think that's very insightful.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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03-10-2012, 08:43 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 08:37 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Logic is a subset of math, just done with words instead of numbers.

Logic is a superset, not a subset, of math.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-10-2012, 08:48 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
(03-10-2012 08:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 08:37 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Logic is a subset of math, just done with words instead of numbers.

Logic is a superset, not a subset, of math.

My bad.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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03-10-2012, 09:04 PM
RE: Believe it or Not: I'm asking for atheist opinions
To the OP:

No, we do not need to have any respect for other people's knowledge when that knowledge is based on bastardizing real science, making wild claims with no proof, and simply saying "God did it."

I went to a Baptist Christian forum earlier today and I lost all my faith in humanity. The people there claim that the Earth is flat, that English is God's language, and that things like the recent NASA mission to Mars are faked because the planets are just points of light in the celestial sphere (according to the Bible.) How am I supposed to have any respect for stupid ignorance on that level? I can't have an argument or conversation with anyone who thinks these things, because to them science starts and ends with a 2,000 year old book...and everything else is the work of the devil.

One poster ever claimed that the song Gangnam Style was an attack by the Japanese people on American values as revenge for the nuclear bombs in WWII. When someone else posted that the song is from South Korea, the people in the site got mad, and accused the person that pointed this out of being ignorant about geography and of working for the devil. If you think I'm making this stuff up, send me a private PM and I'll refer you to that forum..but I warn you, the level of stupidity there will forever destroy any faith in humanity.

Stop the itchy blanket of Creationism from spreading to our classrooms. Say no to Iron Age superstitions Evil_monster
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