Believe!
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17-10-2017, 05:02 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 04:58 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-10-2017 04:11 PM)Eagle Wrote:  ... in short, the Bible was preserved by scribes, some of whom couldn't even read, who were tasked to making exact copies of the scriptures. This isn't some historic story like Ulysses or something, people did frequently sacrifice their lives for these scriptures.

Nonetheless, these scribes were human beings, and human beings make mistakes. By comparing different manuscripts, we can see many of the mistakes made, and we can see patterns of certain types of mistakes that are made over and over. Bart Ehrman has written whole books on this subject. I don't care how dedicated these scribes were, they weren't machines. Mistakes are inevitable.

Quote:... treating the Bible as if it were any other book, but that is not the case.

How do you know that is not the case? Because the Bible itself says so? It is "just another book" until proven to be otherwise. Its own internal claims do not constitute proof.
Regardless of your opinion on it, the people who preserved it had a different opinion.
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17-10-2017, 05:04 PM
Believe!
(17-10-2017 04:24 PM)Eagle Wrote:  This was what I was referring to: The seeming ability for someone to assume they are an expert on everything.

When a subject is made up, anyone can be an expert. This maxim applies especially to religion, since it places itself exempt from fact-checking.
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17-10-2017, 05:07 PM
RE: Believe!
I love that Eagle's source is Wikipedia and he seems proud of that.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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17-10-2017, 05:08 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 04:16 PM)Eagle Wrote:  
(17-10-2017 04:01 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  So, not a christian then, but rather a practitioner of biblotry, eh? If your god actually existed he'd cast you into eternal flames for worshiping an idol (the KJV) above him. Good thing for you he's no more real than Thor or Jupiter.
Are you purposefully trying to be disruptive?

I use the KJV as my Bible, I worship God. That's pretty obvious to tell the difference unless you are being purposefully disruptive, but, if you think your comment is intelligent, please think twice before posting.

Or, well, OK, maybe you really do think you are right, that's OK, there you go, there's your answer! You could stop putting words into my mouth haha Big Grin

I noticed you responded to this post (so you can clearly see my posts on your screen) and yet a cogent reply to my postulate about nested phylogenetic hierarchies is yet to appear.

Why, do you think, could that be, oh great university educated (with honors!!) in the life sciences geneticist/genetic engineer/recombinant DNA tech/laboratory lackey?
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17-10-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 05:07 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I love that Eagle's source is Wikipedia and he seems proud of that.

Lol, he's trolling really hard today too, must be sexually frustrated or something, what with all that evangelical masturbatory guilt he's probably carrying around.
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17-10-2017, 05:31 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 02:55 PM)Eagle Wrote:  and evolution is defined as,

the process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed from earlier forms during the history of the earth.

That might be your problem. You are making up your own definition of evolution.

That is not even close to the definition used by the people that are experts in the field. The definition that best describes the process.
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17-10-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 04:52 PM)Eagle Wrote:  Thank you stating your assertion as correct, but, like everything else you say, it's wrong! Big Grin

If you're going to troll, at least put some effort into it.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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17-10-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Believe!
Within the sound of silence

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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17-10-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 05:01 PM)Eagle Wrote:  
(17-10-2017 04:55 PM)Free Wrote:  Actually, I read Latin and Koine Greek, and am educated in ancient Roman/Jewish/Christian history. At times I have done some research for a couple of religious history scholars. I do all that simply out of love for history, because trying to earn a living from it would put me in a tar paper shack at the edge of town. There's very little monetary gain in going full professional in history.

I am not saying that you should switch from KJV to a modern bible, what I am saying is that if you want to understand clearly what the bible actually says you will need to become educated as I have.

There are things you need to learn such as idiom, which is extremely important. It will help you to understand that some of what you are reading is actually a "saying" which carries a totally different meaning than what is being interpreted in the English translations.

You cannot know this without an education, and because of that, you may never know what Jesus was actually talking about in many many verses. Not even your pastor would know.

And that is the value of an education in this field.

Haha, if any scholar is worth their salt they wouldn't be doing any more English versions.

Congratulations on being so educated! I'm sure mom will be pleased Big Grin

When you read the committee of some translation, there are people on it with qualifications longer than they appear to have room after their names for, but, when you look at the translations they produce, they change world like 'worshipped' to 'knelt' and all sorts of stuff which is not what the scriptures say. Having multiple degrees, diplomas, PHds doesn't remove a persons desire to massage their ego, and listen to themselves over honesty, actually, it can make it worse, because they become more convinced of an inflated self opinion.

Actually, before something gets published as an accepted interpretation, it is sent for peer review to other scholars. It goes through a "collective of intelligence" where the position is either accepted or rejected.

That's what modern scholarship does, and that is why it is more effective. Many of those who peer review the work do not even know each other personally.

Meanwhile, the King James bible was conceived by a number of Puritan ministers, 15 of them to be more precise. None were scholars of note. You can read more of this from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Court_Conference

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17-10-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Believe!
(17-10-2017 04:20 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-10-2017 04:00 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  FFS. The KJV was created by the Anglican church, which was founded by King Henry VIII so he could get a divorce. Because he couldn't legally murder any more wives.

Congratulations. You have successfully lowered the bar once again.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that. The primary creation of Henry VIII's Anglican Church was the Book of Common Prayer. There were already several competing English translations of the Bible. King James commissioned the KJV quite a few years later, aiming to combine the best features of the earlier translations to produce a single new version that (it was hoped) would be used by everyone (as it turned out, that happened beyond their wildest dreams). Something like 90% of the KJV is taken verbatim from one or the other of the existing translations, but there is also substantial new content. In many ways, it is specifically Protestant (as opposed to the contemporaneous Catholic Douay-Rheims translation), but I'm not sure that it's specifically Anglican. And it's still a very good translation -- but not without its problems.

Thanks for the clarification!

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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