Believing That God Doesn't Exist
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-11-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:34 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  In the context of your statement, please define "faith"
Save it for my Q&A thread. Big Grin
Makes it hard to have a conversation with you if we are not clear about what is being said.

By my understanding of faith is that there must be some sort of risk. e.g. jumping off a bridge a person risks their life by putting faith in the bungee cord.
But regarding an atheist, what is at risk? what is it that the atheist is putting faith into?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 03:56 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:34 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Save it for my Q&A thread. Big Grin
Makes it hard to have a conversation with you if we are not clear about what is being said.

By my understanding of faith is that there must be some sort of risk. e.g. jumping off a bridge a person risks their life by putting faith in the bungee cord.
But regarding an atheist, what is at risk? what is it that the atheist is putting faith into?

You put faith in your belief of a lack of God. Faith is part of a belief system.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 03:59 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 03:56 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Makes it hard to have a conversation with you if we are not clear about what is being said.

By my understanding of faith is that there must be some sort of risk. e.g. jumping off a bridge a person risks their life by putting faith in the bungee cord.
But regarding an atheist, what is at risk? what is it that the atheist is putting faith into?

You put faith in your belief of a lack of God. Faith is part of a belief system.

I am a weak atheist, please explain what belief it is that I have, please explain what risk is involved.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 04:08 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I am a weak atheist, please explain what belief it is that I have, please explain what risk is involved.

(I never mentioned risk- you did, but fair enough)

You risk Hell, or more generally, being wrong about your convictions and paying the price in the world to come (or the world as it is, depending on the belief system).

You believe that there is positively no chance of a God, given the evidence, and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 04:39 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2013 04:44 PM by kim.)
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 03:59 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You put faith in your belief of a lack of God.
I have no faith. I have no belief. And yet, lack of god surrounds me.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You risk Hell,
I have no belief. A lack of god surrounds me and so if I have no god, I have no hell.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  or more generally, being wrong about your convictions
I have no convictions concerning a god. A conviction is a firmly held belief or opinion.
I might have an opinion about something I find no evidence for, but it might not be firmly held.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  and paying the price in the world to come
Again, I have no god, I have no world to come (no hell).

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You believe that there is positively no chance of a God.
A lack of god surrounds me. <---There is nothing absolute about this statement.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  given the evidence,
I have yet to be provided with rational, logical, tangible, or plausible evidence.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.

You - no doubt.
Me - doubt.
This is our only difference.

If there is no doubt, there is no room for discussion.
If there is doubt, there is room for discussion.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kim's post
17-11-2013, 04:40 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 04:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I am a weak atheist, please explain what belief it is that I have, please explain what risk is involved.

(I never mentioned risk- you did, but fair enough)

You risk Hell, or more generally, being wrong about your convictions and paying the price in the world to come (or the world as it is, depending on the belief system).

You believe that there is positively no chance of a God, given the evidence, and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.

Well you risk hell in almost every religion other than the one you choose so that's a moot point. The Islamic hell is as bad as the christian one.

As to your second statement that is not what he said. He claimed weak Atheism not Strong atheism. Weak atheism states that we have not yet seen evidence for a proposed god not that such evidence cannot exist.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:39 PM)kim Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 03:59 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You put faith in your belief of a lack of God.
I have no faith. I have no belief. And yet, lack of god surrounds me.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You risk Hell,
I have no belief. A lack of god surrounds me and so if I have no god, I have no hell.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  or more generally, being wrong about your convictions
I have no convictions concerning a god. A conviction is a firmly held belief or opinion. I might have an opinion about something I find no evidence for, but it might not be firmly held.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  and paying the price in the world to come
Again, I have no god, I have no hell.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You believe that there is positively no chance of a God.
A lack of god surrounds me. There is nothing absolute about statement.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  given the evidence,
I have yet to be provided with rational, logical, tangible, or plausible evidence.

(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.

You - no doubt.
Me - doubt.
This is our only difference.
If there is no doubt, there is no room for discussion.
If there is doubt, there is room for discussion.

What a waste of time on your part.

You believe that there is no God. Period. There is no way you can dispute that. Also, it was answering the specific needs of Stevil, though you where also welcome to answer, I suppose. At the bottom you came to the exact same conclusion I did, but missing the important 'belief' statement that makes it meaningful. Also, you DO risk Hell, because there is a chance that Yahweh is real and has littered the world with evidence against Him to test faith of his followers, and it IS true that you absolutely have no belief in God, otherwise you'd be agnostic.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  (I never mentioned risk- you did, but fair enough)

You risk Hell, or more generally, being wrong about your convictions and paying the price in the world to come (or the world as it is, depending on the belief system).

You believe that there is positively no chance of a God, given the evidence, and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.

Well you risk hell in almost every religion other than the one you choose so that's a moot point. The Islamic hell is as bad as the christian one.

As to your second statement that is not what he said. He claimed weak Atheism not Strong atheism. Weak atheism states that we have not yet seen evidence for a proposed god not that such evidence cannot exist.

Then he isn't an atheist but an agnostic. You're one or the other, and I was operating under atheism. And I have no idea what your first paragraph means. I risk hell to, I have no religion I'm just spiritual, but I have a strong belief that takes that risk into account and I realize that my God is real.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2013, 04:52 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:47 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well you risk hell in almost every religion other than the one you choose so that's a moot point. The Islamic hell is as bad as the christian one.

As to your second statement that is not what he said. He claimed weak Atheism not Strong atheism. Weak atheism states that we have not yet seen evidence for a proposed god not that such evidence cannot exist.

Then he isn't an atheist but an agnostic. You're one or the other, and I was operating under atheism. And I have no idea what your first paragraph means. I risk hell to, I have no religion I'm just spiritual, but I have a strong belief that takes that risk into account and I realize that my God is real.

I meant you in the universal plural sense not the singular specific. There are sever hundred thousand "gods" proposed out there all with equal evidence (read none) most have a rather nasty afterlife for those that do not follow their rules. They are mutually exclusive. Meaning you cannot follow all of them. So the threat of hell is a silly thing called "Pascal's wager" and when you extend it beyond a false dichotomy the safest bet is non-belief.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Revenant77x's post
17-11-2013, 04:55 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
Since not all atheists are similarly skeptical, many use the term atheist as an umbrella to describe a general lack of faith in a supernatural presence.

Atheists tend to:
Lack god
Lack heaven
Lack hell
Lack superstitious beliefs

Those are some definite maybes. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: