Believing That God Doesn't Exist
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17-11-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I am a weak atheist, please explain what belief it is that I have, please explain what risk is involved.
(I never mentioned risk- you did, but fair enough)

You risk Hell, or more generally, being wrong about your convictions and paying the price in the world to come (or the world as it is, depending on the belief system).
[/quote]
In my example of jumping off a bridge with a bungee, the person risks death because they know death is possible, they know the bungee can snap or maybe it isn't tied on properly or maybe it is too long.
With regards to Hell, the atheist does not know of such a thing. It would be like saying a person risks killing fairies when they mow the lawn. A person that lacks a belief in lawn fairies does not consider this a risk. An atheist risks nothing by not putting faith into gods.
(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You believe that there is positively no chance of a God, given the evidence, and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.
I'm a weak atheist, I don't have a positive belief that there are no gods.
The term "god" is so ill defined. Maybe I am a god, maybe lizards and starfish are gods, with their ability to grow back limbs, maybe the sun is a god, maybe energy/matter is a god.
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17-11-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:58 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 04:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I am a weak atheist, please explain what belief it is that I have, please explain what risk is involved.
(I never mentioned risk- you did, but fair enough)

You risk Hell, or more generally, being wrong about your convictions and paying the price in the world to come (or the world as it is, depending on the belief system).
In my example of jumping off a bridge with a bungee, the person risks death because they know death is possible, they know the bungee can snap or maybe it isn't tied on properly or maybe it is too long.
With regards to Hell, the atheist does not know of such a thing. It would be like saying a person risks killing fairies when they mow the lawn. A person that lacks a belief in lawn fairies does not consider this a risk. An atheist risks nothing by not putting faith into gods.
(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You believe that there is positively no chance of a God, given the evidence, and I believe that there absolutely is a God, given the evidence.
I'm a weak atheist, I don't have a positive belief that there are no gods.
The term "god" is so ill defined. Maybe I am a god, maybe lizards and starfish are gods, with their ability to grow back limbs, maybe the sun is a god, maybe energy/matter is a god.
[/quote]

Then you're an agnostic. Why did you not tell me?

Then your beliefs are scattered and cannot be pinned down. But anyone who is not a Christian/Muslim/whatever does risk Hell, because it is possible or else no one would believe in it.
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17-11-2013, 05:03 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:44 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 04:39 PM)kim Wrote:  I have no faith. I have no belief. And yet, lack of god surrounds me.

I have no belief. A lack of god surrounds me and so if I have no god, I have no hell.

I have no convictions concerning a god. A conviction is a firmly held belief or opinion. I might have an opinion about something I find no evidence for, but it might not be firmly held.

Again, I have no god, I have no hell.

A lack of god surrounds me. There is nothing absolute about statement.

I have yet to be provided with rational, logical, tangible, or plausible evidence.


You - no doubt.
Me - doubt.
This is our only difference.
If there is no doubt, there is no room for discussion.
If there is doubt, there is room for discussion.

What a waste of time on your part.

It seems that way because apparently it went right over your head.
It was subtle, clever, and precise.

Quote:You believe that there is no God. Period. There is no way you can dispute that. Also, it was answering the specific needs of Stevil, though you where also welcome to answer, I suppose. At the bottom you came to the exact same conclusion I did, but missing the important 'belief' statement that makes it meaningful. Also, you DO risk Hell, because there is a chance that Yahweh is real and has littered the world with evidence against Him to test faith of his followers, and it IS true that you absolutely have no belief in God, otherwise you'd be agnostic.

You really shouldn't tell people what their beliefs are - it makes you look quite foolish.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 05:01 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Then you're an agnostic. Why did you not tell me?
Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief.

Theism vs atheism does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Quote:Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities
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17-11-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 05:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  You really shouldn't tell people what their beliefs are - it makes you look quite foolish.

That's is good advice for you TTA... especially if you are going to be hanging out on forums, atheist or otherwise.

Luckily, you caught Chas on one of his less deadly days. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-11-2013, 08:41 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 05:47 PM)kim Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 05:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  You really shouldn't tell people what their beliefs are - it makes you look quite foolish.

That's is good advice for you TTA... especially if you are going to be hanging out on forums, atheist or otherwise.

Luckily, you caught Chas on one of his less deadly days. Wink

Sheesh.. you should've seen him dealing with KillKillKilltotheThird!
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17-11-2013, 11:29 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
The Thinking Theist....It makes sense that there is only one of you. Big Grin

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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17-11-2013, 11:32 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 05:47 PM)kim Wrote:  That's is good advice for you TTA...

Have you been drinking? Blink

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17-11-2013, 11:34 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(12-11-2013 05:14 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Those of you who have heard me speak about the belief and/or lack of belief in gods are probably familiar with my views. Reasonably-held beliefs/lack of beliefs should be based upon the available evidence either for or against them. A belief that unicorns exist is unjustified because we have no evidence that they exist. Thus, the belief in unicorns is not reasonable.

Unicorns are in the bible, they exist!
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17-11-2013, 11:40 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 04:44 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You believe that there is no God. Period. There is no way you can dispute that.

I don't see it as a belief in the absence of a god. I see it as an absence of belief in a god. It is not the same. I would argue that you could dispute it by presenting undeniable evidence that a god exists.
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