Believing That God Doesn't Exist
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17-11-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:18 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(12-11-2013 05:14 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Those of you who have heard me speak about the belief and/or lack of belief in gods are probably familiar with my views. Reasonably-held beliefs/lack of beliefs should be based upon the available evidence either for or against them. A belief that unicorns exist is unjustified because we have no evidence that they exist. Thus, the belief in unicorns is not reasonable. The same goes with deities. We have no discernible evidence that any deity exists. Thus, the belief in deities is unjustified and not reasonable.

But as of late, I've been wondering a little more about the belief, as opposed to a lack of a belief, that these things don't exist.

I'm a reasonable person. This means that I do not adhere to beliefs without sufficient supporting evidence. When someone informs me of something, I seek validation. I check to ensure that the evidence supports the claim before investing a belief in it. But when it comes to the existence of a deity, as I stated, we have zero evidence that one exists. Now, this is where I'm getting hung-up. Instead of evidence for the existence of deities, we have a blatant lack of discernible evidence for the existence of deities. When a believer tells me they believe God exists, they are basically pointing to empty space and saying "There is a thing there." But all I (and any other clear-sighted individual) am seeing is empty space.

Does this lack of evidence, in itself, serve as enough evidence to justify a positive belief that God does not exist? Being reasonable, (and oh-so humble) I'm concerned that maybe my increasing tendency toward a belief that God doesn't exist is not sufficiently justified. For a long time, I've been of the "I don't believe God doesn't exist, I just lack a belief that he does" camp. It seems reasonable. But when I look out at the empty space, I'm inclined to deduce that absence of evidence is, in fact, evidence of absence.

Again, because I tend to ramble: Does this lack of evidence, in itself, serve as enough evidence to justify a positive belief that God does not exist?

I always say that my belief in God is just as rational as atheism because atheists have faith in the lack of a God, while I have faith in the existence of God.

No, you are confused. I see no evidence for any gods. That is not faith, that is reason.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:34 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  [Image: Not-Again-450-B.jpg]

Save it for my Q&A thread. Big Grin

Then don't post nonsense elsewhere.

I don't think that was called for...
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17-11-2013, 02:48 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:18 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I always say that my belief in God is just as rational as atheism because atheists have faith in the lack of a God, while I have faith in the existence of God.

No, you are confused. I see no evidence for any gods. That is not faith, that is reason.

Just give it a rest. Stop disagreeing with everything I say, ok?

Sheeeeesh.
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17-11-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:48 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you are confused. I see no evidence for any gods. That is not faith, that is reason.

Just give it a rest. Stop disagreeing with everything I say, ok?

Sheeeeesh.

Stop saying such disagreeable things.

Tongue

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17-11-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:48 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Just give it a rest. Stop disagreeing with everything I say, ok?

Sheeeeesh.

Stop saying such disagreeable things.

Tongue

You 'smart' people on the forums can be huuuge assholes, all joking aside.

It's really starting to tire me and I'm posting on the Entertainment threads now, lol. Whatever.

All joking put back on the table, I believe that I have an unanswered Q&A question for you nitpicks.

Just kidding, I love all of you! Heart
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17-11-2013, 02:57 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:18 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(12-11-2013 05:14 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Those of you who have heard me speak about the belief and/or lack of belief in gods are probably familiar with my views. Reasonably-held beliefs/lack of beliefs should be based upon the available evidence either for or against them. A belief that unicorns exist is unjustified because we have no evidence that they exist. Thus, the belief in unicorns is not reasonable. The same goes with deities. We have no discernible evidence that any deity exists. Thus, the belief in deities is unjustified and not reasonable.

But as of late, I've been wondering a little more about the belief, as opposed to a lack of a belief, that these things don't exist.

I'm a reasonable person. This means that I do not adhere to beliefs without sufficient supporting evidence. When someone informs me of something, I seek validation. I check to ensure that the evidence supports the claim before investing a belief in it. But when it comes to the existence of a deity, as I stated, we have zero evidence that one exists. Now, this is where I'm getting hung-up. Instead of evidence for the existence of deities, we have a blatant lack of discernible evidence for the existence of deities. When a believer tells me they believe God exists, they are basically pointing to empty space and saying "There is a thing there." But all I (and any other clear-sighted individual) am seeing is empty space.

Does this lack of evidence, in itself, serve as enough evidence to justify a positive belief that God does not exist? Being reasonable, (and oh-so humble) I'm concerned that maybe my increasing tendency toward a belief that God doesn't exist is not sufficiently justified. For a long time, I've been of the "I don't believe God doesn't exist, I just lack a belief that he does" camp. It seems reasonable. But when I look out at the empty space, I'm inclined to deduce that absence of evidence is, in fact, evidence of absence.

Again, because I tend to ramble: Does this lack of evidence, in itself, serve as enough evidence to justify a positive belief that God does not exist?

I always say that my belief in God is just as rational as atheism because atheists have faith in the lack of a God, while I have faith in the existence of God.

So, if someone believes in Mother Goose, then her belief is as rationally justified as the one of someone who does not believe in Mother Goose?

Of course, we can substitute Mother Goose with any other product of human imagination, including you know Whom Wink

Ciao

- viole
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17-11-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:47 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Then don't post nonsense elsewhere.

I don't think that was called for...

Yes, it is. If you post what an atheist is almost certainly going to disagree with, be prepared for a response. That's the way it works.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:57 PM)viole Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:18 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I always say that my belief in God is just as rational as atheism because atheists have faith in the lack of a God, while I have faith in the existence of God.

So, if someone believes in Mother Goose, then her belief is as rationally justified as the one of someone who does not believe in Mother Goose?

Of course, we can substitute Mother Goose with any other product of human imagination, including you know Whom Wink

Ciao

- viole

Yes, you've got it. Though personally I never like Mother Goose.
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17-11-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 02:47 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Then don't post nonsense elsewhere.

I don't think that was called for...

Sorry I forgot to add the Drinking Beverage

But seriously if you don't wish response then don't post. Once you say something everyone who sees it is entitled to respond in anyway they see fit.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-11-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: Believing That God Doesn't Exist
(17-11-2013 03:10 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 02:47 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I don't think that was called for...

Sorry I forgot to add the Drinking Beverage

But seriously if you don't wish response then don't post. Once you say something everyone who sees it is entitled to respond in anyway they see fit.

I meant the sheer attack language that it was implying wasn't called for. Of course you can respond.
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