Benefits/Welfare.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-09-2012, 03:14 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 03:03 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
FSM_scot Wrote:I know far too many people that can't spare as little as £5. I know people that go days without eating, because their choice is shelter or food, Poverty is more widespread than you realise.

Most of the poverty in this country isn't poverty. Most of the people who claim to be living in poverty have big TV's and mobile phones. The problem in most cases is people class luxury items as essentials.

That doesn't mean there aren't people who are genuinely poor. I used to work for the Red Cross for a wee while and trust me, there are some REALLY poor families in the UK. They do everything they can to get by, and it often isn't enough. Those families wouldn't be able to spare a fiver for an appointment.

[Image: opforum1.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes frankiej's post
24-09-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 03:03 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I would find jobs just to keep people from being paid to lounge around playing PS3.
Then why not make those emplyers employ them instead of keeping them on the dole?

(24-09-2012 03:03 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  It would free up all those real jobs for the middle aged unemployed. May also teach them some discipline. I know I'd be one of the first to go, and I'd hate it, but I'll grit my teeth and bear it if it's for the good of the country.

Then what about when their forced national service is over? do they go back on the dole because all the low paying jobs are still being taken by the middle aged unemployed?. The problem isn't being to lazy to find work, The problem is a lack of jobs. Even for skilled workers who go for lower paying jobs out of necessity preventing young people from getting a job.

(24-09-2012 03:03 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Most of the poverty in this country isn't poverty. Most of the people who claim to be living in poverty have big TV's and mobile phones. The problem in most cases is people class luxury items as essentials.

What you described isn't poverty, Those people are chancers. Real poverty exists in the uk, and is widespread especially up here in Scotland. Come to Glasgow and i'll show you some real poverty. This is meant to be a first world country and the sheer level of poverty here will disgust you.

(24-09-2012 03:03 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  People would have to consider whether they could afford another child before they got pregnant, rather than having as many as they wanted and knowing the taxpayer will pay for them.

If people have more than two children and can't afford to give them a proper standard of living then their children will be taken off them.
Children aren't always planned. Sex education in this country is also piss poor (i went to a catholic school and not once were contraceptives mentioned). Not every big family chose to be that way, There are alot of factors. Too many to say 2 is enough, have any more and well take the kids from you. Which when you think about it will cost more in the long run than just giving the parents child benefit. Paying the social workers, back ground checks on new family, checking up to see how the child is getting on, child benefit paid to the foster family etc. It's not a realistic option.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes FSM_scot's post
24-09-2012, 04:07 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
Food for thought...........

Quote:SCOTS nurse Joyce Drummond reveals how thousands of genuinely ill people were set up for a fall before they had even been assessed by benefits firm Atos.


Joyce has not worked since the stress of her job at Atos
A NURSE has revealed how her own life was ruined after under-fire benefits firm Atos forced her to “trick” disabled people out of cash.

Joyce Drummond’s medical training meant she knew claimants were unfit to work.

But she was told to mark people as fit if they could write or show up for an interview properly dressed. Eventually, Joyce was carpeted by bosses for being “too nice” to claimants.

After five months, she was signed off with stress caused by “having to trick sick people out of their benefit”. She quit in July 2009 and hasn’t worked since.

Joyce said candidates were marked down if they:

*looked well-presented, with neat hair and make-up.

*turned up with a toddler.

*could sign the application form.

Public fury is growing against Atos, who have assessed thousands of people with terminal illnesses as fit for work.

And thousands with genuine chronic conditions have been dragged over the coals repeatedly by their inquisitors.

Mum-of-one Joyce, from Mosspark, Glasgow, said Atos decision makers paid no attention to her professional clinical opinion and were only interested in cutting down the number of claimants.

She reveals all the questions she was told to ask were loaded.

Joyce said: “I stopped working for Atos three-and-a-half years ago but I still feel sick every time I think of those people deemed fit for work, when they quite clearly were incapable of doing so.

“I apologise from the bottom of my heart to all those people I had to assess during my five months in the job but the decisions were out of my hands.

“Once I realised how manipulative the assessment system was, I got out immediately. The stress of it all made me ill and I have not worked since.”

Joyce, who worked as a staff nurse at the city’s Southern General for more than 20 years, added: “I only took the job so I could help vulnerable people get the benefits they needed.

“But it wasn’t long before I realised no one cared about my professional clinical opinion. It broke my heart and I went home in tears every night.

“People trusted me as a nurse and they confided in me. I felt I was having to stab them in the back.”

Joyce said many claimants were set up for a fall even before they came into her office in Cadogan Street, Glasgow.

She said: “If they made it in by themselves, that was seen as a sign they could function.

“They also had to fill in a form. If they did it, it showed they could think, write and were capable of managing.

“We also had to assess their appearance. If a woman was wearing make-up and was nicely dressed, she was deemed as functioning and capable.

“If someone came in with a toddler in tow, they were doomed because if they could manage a child, they could surely work.

“If someone had a pet, they were able to function and if they smiled while talking about a pet, I had to mark down that they smiled spontaneously and were therefore not depressed.

“It was so unfair. There could be a very depressed or ill person sitting in front of me but on paper, thanks to the leading questions I had to ask, they could be judged fit to work.”

Joyce says Atos bosses expected assessors to get through 10 cases in a day and reprimanded her for being too nice. She said: “It was impossible to do 10 a day as each claimant had a 44-minute slot. The medical director called me in one day and told me I was too nice.

“I never found out how the decisions went but when I was doing the interview, I knew what the outcome would be.

“Atos went by the philosophy that if you had a finger and could push a button, then you could work. Ridiculous.”

Last week, a Panorama documentary revealed that each week between January and August last year, 32 people died who the Government had declared could be helped back into work.

Appeals against decisions are costing the Government £50million a year.

Atos have a £206million contract from the Department for Work and Pensions.

The leader of the Scottish Parliament’s welfare reform committee pledged to dig deeper into the Atos scandal. Labour MSP Michael McMahon said: “There are serious questions about how Atos manage work and the growing reports of how they have caused distress to so many vulnerable people.

“Whistleblowers have an important part to play in showing just how these reforms are hurting those in genuine need. My committee will continue to investigate the workings of Atos.”

Atos last night defended their role in the benefits process. A spokeswoman said: “Our trained doctors, nurses and physiotherapists use their clinical knowledge and apply the Government’s policy and criteria to each assessment.

“They make no decisions on benefit entitlement and look at each case on an individual basis.

“We understand that applying for benefit can be a difficult time which is why we try to make the part of the process we’re responsible for as comfortable as possible.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scotti...er-1340838

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2012, 04:14 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
Quote:Mum-of-one Joyce, from Mosspark, Glasgow,

Wow i live there. Bemore have you been stalking me again????? Tongue

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 04:14 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
Quote:Mum-of-one Joyce, from Mosspark, Glasgow,

Wow i live there. Bemore have you been stalking me again????? Tongue

If you see this woman on the street then say thank you from me.

I dont call it stalking..... i call it "intense surveilance" Tongue

And now I know where you live MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes bemore's post
24-09-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 04:20 PM)bemore Wrote:  If you see this woman on the street then say thank you from me.

I dont call it stalking..... i call it "intense surveilance" Tongue

And now I know where you live MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

There are alot of houses here, you'll need to try harder than that Tongue.

If I ever see her I will. I'll say, some guy named Bemore says thanks.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 03:33 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Then why not make those emplyers employ them instead of keeping them on the dole?

I don't mean actual jobs with employers. I mean tasks they can do in exchange for their unemployment money. Streets swept, graffiti removed, parks maintained, that sorta thing.

FSM_scot Wrote:Then what about when their forced national service is over? do they go back on the dole because all the low paying jobs are still being taken by the middle aged unemployed?. The problem isn't being to lazy to find work, The problem is a lack of jobs. Even for skilled workers who go for lower paying jobs out of necessity preventing young people from getting a job.

I'm not saying it will solve unemployment, it will certainly help though. You're essentially making going on to a million new jobs (just guessing with the figures).

FSM_scot Wrote:What you described isn't poverty, Those people are chancers. Real poverty exists in the uk, and is widespread especially up here in Scotland. Come to Glasgow and i'll show you some real poverty. This is meant to be a first world country and the sheer level of poverty here will disgust you.

What I've already suggested will ease real poverty. Anyone can earn 40 hours a week at minimum wage. There would be no reason that under such a system people can't afford maybe £10 a year for doctors appointments.

FSM_scot Wrote:Children aren't always planned. Sex education in this country is also piss poor (i went to a catholic school and not once were contraceptives mentioned). Not every big family chose to be that way, There are alot of factors. Too many to say 2 is enough, have any more and well take the kids from you. Which when you think about it will cost more in the long run than just giving the parents child benefit. Paying the social workers, back ground checks on new family, checking up to see how the child is getting on, child benefit paid to the foster family etc. It's not a realistic option.

In this country you can make a career out of having a large family. That needs to be stopped.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 11:40 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 06:43 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Actually they already do it here and it's not as hard to implement as you might think.

30minutes per beneficiary, per month. That means 1 person could get through roughly 18-20 people per day (some people take longer, some less). Then you could have roughly 6 people in a small bank-like-setup building, that's roughly 100 people per day. 700 per week. 2,800 per month.
Then you simply adjust to population size, so small towns would have one place where as a city would have one per suburb or larger ones etc..

It's really not that hard and expensive to implement. Not to mention the money saved on decline in drug use, gain from educated children etc.. etc.. The decrease in time on welfare (saving money) etc..

Still think it would be more effective in the private sector.

earmuffs Wrote:Also, still waiting on why income tax is immoral, just thought I'd remind you.

Don't take my silence as a forfeit. I will get around to it soon enough. Not that it matters. You are not going to agree with me. Nothing I say is going to convince you otherwise. You have made up your mind on the issue, nothing I say will change your mind.

Private sector or government controlled, it matters not where the money comes from. The problems will remain. Except instead of tax payer money it'd be, well it'd still be tax payer money but in the form of donations.

By making it privatized (which I agree is doable, Singapore does it) you are just simply moving the problem from here to there. At least with government control you have just that, control. So you can implement law and changes that change behavior.

eg: Here there is a law being put into place that all parents who receive welfare for their 3-4year old must have that child in early childhood education.
This changes behavior, this gets the most at-risk children the kick start that is needed for their education as all studies show early childhood educated children preform better and aren't playing catch up all throughout school and hence will feel more.. what's the word... successful. Less like, "well I'm behind I may as well just drop out".

Plus, unemployment and other welfare cases are societies issue as a whole. It works for places like Singapore because they have a different culture. Asian countries have a "for the state" culture, and so welfare is almost seen as leaching from the state. But we live in western society, we are less about state and more about people. Not saying one is better then the other, just that is the way it is. And so as a society about the people welfare is seen as a social issue and in the governments department as it's responsibility to look after us.
Actually that's probably a better way to describe the difference in culture. Asian countries see the state almost as a monarchy, higher them themselves "we live for the state" almost, where as the west is more "the state lives for us".

As for the income tax. My mind is completely open, people may not think it is, but it always is, they just need to present better arguments then what they do. ie: building the Enterprise, filox and friends... So by all means present your case, but I predict it's gonna be stupid and hence my almost teasing around it.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2012, 09:06 PM
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 04:07 PM)bemore Wrote:  Food for thought...........

Quote:SCOTS nurse Joyce Drummond reveals how thousands of genuinely ill people were set up for a fall before they had even been assessed by benefits firm Atos.


Joyce has not worked since the stress of her job at Atos
A NURSE has revealed how her own life was ruined after under-fire benefits firm Atos forced her to “trick” disabled people out of cash.

Joyce Drummond’s medical training meant she knew claimants were unfit to work.

But she was told to mark people as fit if they could write or show up for an interview properly dressed. Eventually, Joyce was carpeted by bosses for being “too nice” to claimants.

After five months, she was signed off with stress caused by “having to trick sick people out of their benefit”. She quit in July 2009 and hasn’t worked since.

Joyce said candidates were marked down if they:

*looked well-presented, with neat hair and make-up.

*turned up with a toddler.

*could sign the application form.

Public fury is growing against Atos, who have assessed thousands of people with terminal illnesses as fit for work.

And thousands with genuine chronic conditions have been dragged over the coals repeatedly by their inquisitors.

Mum-of-one Joyce, from Mosspark, Glasgow, said Atos decision makers paid no attention to her professional clinical opinion and were only interested in cutting down the number of claimants.

She reveals all the questions she was told to ask were loaded.

Joyce said: “I stopped working for Atos three-and-a-half years ago but I still feel sick every time I think of those people deemed fit for work, when they quite clearly were incapable of doing so.

“I apologise from the bottom of my heart to all those people I had to assess during my five months in the job but the decisions were out of my hands.

“Once I realised how manipulative the assessment system was, I got out immediately. The stress of it all made me ill and I have not worked since.”

Joyce, who worked as a staff nurse at the city’s Southern General for more than 20 years, added: “I only took the job so I could help vulnerable people get the benefits they needed.

“But it wasn’t long before I realised no one cared about my professional clinical opinion. It broke my heart and I went home in tears every night.

“People trusted me as a nurse and they confided in me. I felt I was having to stab them in the back.”

Joyce said many claimants were set up for a fall even before they came into her office in Cadogan Street, Glasgow.

She said: “If they made it in by themselves, that was seen as a sign they could function.

“They also had to fill in a form. If they did it, it showed they could think, write and were capable of managing.

“We also had to assess their appearance. If a woman was wearing make-up and was nicely dressed, she was deemed as functioning and capable.

“If someone came in with a toddler in tow, they were doomed because if they could manage a child, they could surely work.

“If someone had a pet, they were able to function and if they smiled while talking about a pet, I had to mark down that they smiled spontaneously and were therefore not depressed.

“It was so unfair. There could be a very depressed or ill person sitting in front of me but on paper, thanks to the leading questions I had to ask, they could be judged fit to work.”

Joyce says Atos bosses expected assessors to get through 10 cases in a day and reprimanded her for being too nice. She said: “It was impossible to do 10 a day as each claimant had a 44-minute slot. The medical director called me in one day and told me I was too nice.

“I never found out how the decisions went but when I was doing the interview, I knew what the outcome would be.

“Atos went by the philosophy that if you had a finger and could push a button, then you could work. Ridiculous.”

Last week, a Panorama documentary revealed that each week between January and August last year, 32 people died who the Government had declared could be helped back into work.

Appeals against decisions are costing the Government £50million a year.

Atos have a £206million contract from the Department for Work and Pensions.

The leader of the Scottish Parliament’s welfare reform committee pledged to dig deeper into the Atos scandal. Labour MSP Michael McMahon said: “There are serious questions about how Atos manage work and the growing reports of how they have caused distress to so many vulnerable people.

“Whistleblowers have an important part to play in showing just how these reforms are hurting those in genuine need. My committee will continue to investigate the workings of Atos.”

Atos last night defended their role in the benefits process. A spokeswoman said: “Our trained doctors, nurses and physiotherapists use their clinical knowledge and apply the Government’s policy and criteria to each assessment.

“They make no decisions on benefit entitlement and look at each case on an individual basis.

“We understand that applying for benefit can be a difficult time which is why we try to make the part of the process we’re responsible for as comfortable as possible.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scotti...er-1340838



Wow...so this lady was so stressed out that she just couldn't work for years since she had the job of assessing people for eligibility for benefits? Cry me a river. And cut off her benefits too, that lazy sap on civilization!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2012, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 09:24 PM by bemore.)
RE: Benefits/Welfare.
(24-09-2012 09:06 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Wow...so this lady was so stressed out that she just couldn't work for years since she had the job of assessing people for eligibility for benefits? Cry me a river. And cut off her benefits too, that lazy sap on civilization!

I hope you never have to face the changes you wish to implement my friend..... I hope your little bubble you live in never bursts and you are faced with poverty yourself and nobody giving a fuck/caring about your wellbeing.... any children you may have.... your family and loved ones.

Also whilst the story is about her leaving.... I posted it because of the way ATOS and the goverment are setting the system up of checking people so they all fail.

Its unfair.... and shows that money is classed as more important than people.... which in my eyes is backwards social evolution.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: