Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
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01-07-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(30-06-2016 05:18 PM)BnW Wrote:  The reality is that she broke the law. Whether or not she broke a law, like the Espionage Act, that carries a criminal penalty is a question of fact to be decided by a jury, assuming she's even indicted. But, she broke the law.

Until a jury finds her guilty, no American lawyer has any business saying this.
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01-07-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(30-06-2016 05:39 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As for the war, I don't really have a comment. I was active duty at time and followed orders. We took out Saddam, killed his rapist, murdering sons, and at least attempted to help the Iraqi citizens. I lost friends over there. It is what it is. I refuse to believe they died for nothing.

My sympathies for your friends. They didn't die for nothing. I don't think they died for the reasons they, you, or I swore the Oath, though.

Giving Bush Jr a pass on that war, which killed 5000 of our brethren, is bullshit. Just because you put on a uniform doesn't mean you turned off your brain. If you're afraid to speak your piece, say as much, but don't shilly-shally about "I was in uniform, I couldn't think for myself". Bullshit and apple-butter.

Love,

a Desert Storm Air Force vet
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01-07-2016, 01:21 AM
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(01-07-2016 01:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-06-2016 05:39 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As for the war, I don't really have a comment. I was active duty at time and followed orders. We took out Saddam, killed his rapist, murdering sons, and at least attempted to help the Iraqi citizens. I lost friends over there. It is what it is. I refuse to believe they died for nothing.

My sympathies for your friends. They didn't die for nothing. I don't think they died for the reasons they, you, or I swore the Oath, though.

Giving Bush Jr a pass on that war, which killed 5000 of our brethren, is bullshit. Just because you put on a uniform doesn't mean you turned off your brain. If you're afraid to speak your piece, say as much, but don't shilly-shally about "I was in uniform, I couldn't think for myself". Bullshit and apple-butter.

Love,

a Desert Storm Air Force vet

Let's not forget a lot of Iraqis died, both those who fought with America and against... The damage done by that war will be still being felt 20 years from now.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-07-2016, 02:56 AM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2016 03:01 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(01-07-2016 01:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  Let's not forget a lot of Iraqis died, both those who fought with America and against... The damage done by that war will be still being felt 20 years from now.

Believe me, MD -- I was in the rear with the gear where my dumb ass belonged. And on TV one night there was a report of an American bomb which hit a shelter crowded with Iraqis. 511 were killed. The news channel, a Spanish station, was not like American news -- it showed all the horror ... people being carried out of there with strips of flesh peeling off their arms, burn injuries falling apart.

I thought to myself, "I'm helping to do this so that we can have $1.50/gallon gas?"

Well, at that point it dawned on me that I had been a pawn. It also dawned on me that in my thoughtlessness I had bloodied my own hands, in a sense. I wasn't combat aircrew, but I damned sure played my part as a small cog in a large machine.

My friend, I'm very well aware of the guilt I carry, even for my small role. I don't forget those folk ... not a bit.
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01-07-2016, 03:20 AM
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(01-07-2016 02:56 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 01:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  Let's not forget a lot of Iraqis died, both those who fought with America and against... The damage done by that war will be still being felt 20 years from now.

Believe me, MD -- I was in the rear with the gear where my dumb ass belonged. And on TV one night there was a report of an American bomb which hit a shelter crowded with Iraqis. 511 were killed. The news channel, a Spanish station, was not like American news -- it showed all the horror ... people being carried out of there with strips of flesh peeling off their arms, burn injuries falling apart.

I thought to myself, "I'm helping to do this so that we can have $1.50/gallon gas?"

Well, at that point it dawned on me that I had been a pawn. It also dawned on me that in my thoughtlessness I had bloodied my own hands, in a sense. I wasn't combat aircrew, but I damned sure played my part as a small cog in a large machine.

My friend, I'm very well aware of the guilt I carry, even for my small role. I don't forget those folk ... not a bit.

If I'd not been extremely lucky in the place where I live and the circumstances in which I grew up I'd have been another dumb kid stuck in someone else's war too. I am not judging you at all... just... somehow the press, and then you guys... were just talking about the 5000 dead soldiers. I actually looked up the stats prior to making the post. In the Iraq war, according to Wikipedia the estimate is that over 500 000 Iraqi people died. 500 000! And even that is a drop in the ocean compared to e.g. the conflicts in the Congo. Most of the dead were non-combatants too. I can remember watching the news reports coming in, where they'd mention 500 dead like it was literally nothing.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-07-2016, 06:11 AM
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(01-07-2016 01:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-06-2016 05:18 PM)BnW Wrote:  The reality is that she broke the law. Whether or not she broke a law, like the Espionage Act, that carries a criminal penalty is a question of fact to be decided by a jury, assuming she's even indicted. But, she broke the law.

Until a jury finds her guilty, no American lawyer has any business saying this.

I disagree. There have been sufficient admissions on her part to conclude she violated Federal Law. Not all violations carry criminal penalties, though, and I do agree that people need to wait until all the facts are revealed (if they ever are), but you can reasonably conclude laws were violated.

The Freedom of Information Act is one of them, btw. Security is not the only reason you are not allowed to circumvent government servers.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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01-07-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Benghazi Scandal Fizzled To Nothing
(01-07-2016 03:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 02:56 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Believe me, MD -- I was in the rear with the gear where my dumb ass belonged. And on TV one night there was a report of an American bomb which hit a shelter crowded with Iraqis. 511 were killed. The news channel, a Spanish station, was not like American news -- it showed all the horror ... people being carried out of there with strips of flesh peeling off their arms, burn injuries falling apart.

I thought to myself, "I'm helping to do this so that we can have $1.50/gallon gas?"

Well, at that point it dawned on me that I had been a pawn. It also dawned on me that in my thoughtlessness I had bloodied my own hands, in a sense. I wasn't combat aircrew, but I damned sure played my part as a small cog in a large machine.

My friend, I'm very well aware of the guilt I carry, even for my small role. I don't forget those folk ... not a bit.

If I'd not been extremely lucky in the place where I live and the circumstances in which I grew up I'd have been another dumb kid stuck in someone else's war too. I am not judging you at all... just... somehow the press, and then you guys... were just talking about the 5000 dead soldiers. I actually looked up the stats prior to making the post. In the Iraq war, according to Wikipedia the estimate is that over 500 000 Iraqi people died. 500 000! And even that is a drop in the ocean compared to e.g. the conflicts in the Congo. Most of the dead were non-combatants too. I can remember watching the news reports coming in, where they'd mention 500 dead like it was literally nothing.
I hit that niche too. Post Vietnam sentiment ran high; not really a chance I would get into the military.
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