Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
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08-03-2016, 10:49 AM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2016 10:53 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Whether it's being taken out of context or not, it was a stupid thing to say. Bernie will eventually need the vote of middle class whites, who weren't always middle class. He won't win with only safe space needing college kids suffering from white guilt and minorities as his voting blocs. Bernie is out of touch. He is unelectable. Hard working people will not support someone who wants to take their money and give it away to freeloaders. His intentions are good but the American people are not ready for European type politics.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-03-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(08-03-2016 10:49 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Whether it's being taken out of context or not, it was a stupid thing to say. Bernie will eventually need the vote of middle class whites, who weren't always middle class. He won't win with only college kids suffering with white guilt and minorities as his voting blocs. Bernie is out of touch. He is unelectable. Hard working people will not support someone who wants to take their money and give it away to freeloaders. His intentions are good but the American people are not ready for European type politics.


What freeloaders? Compared to western Europeans, Americans work harder and have less to show for it.

We can afford to have more of the pie we rightfully deserve, just as soon as we can wrangle control away from the real freeloaders. You know, unaccountable multinational corporations who own armies of lobbyist, and by proxy, the politicians themselves. The problem isn't social security and other welfare systems and the people that scam them, their theft is fucking peanuts in comparison to the tax breaks for just about any corporation that can make the NASDAQ or NYSE.

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08-03-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(08-03-2016 10:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 10:49 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Whether it's being taken out of context or not, it was a stupid thing to say. Bernie will eventually need the vote of middle class whites, who weren't always middle class. He won't win with only college kids suffering with white guilt and minorities as his voting blocs. Bernie is out of touch. He is unelectable. Hard working people will not support someone who wants to take their money and give it away to freeloaders. His intentions are good but the American people are not ready for European type politics.


What freeloaders? Compared to western Europeans, Americans work harder and have less to show for it.

We can afford to have more of the pie we rightfully deserve, just as soon as we can wrangle control away from the real freeloaders. You know, unaccountable multinational corporations who own armies of lobbyist, and by proxy, the politicians themselves. The problem isn't social security and other welfare systems and the people that scam them, their theft is fucking peanuts in comparison to the tax breaks for just about any corporation that can make the NASDAQ or NYSE.

More of the pie? There is no pie other than the one you make for yourself. Now, I will agree that we should be able to keep more of our own pie (lower taxes) but taking other peoples money in the form of handouts won't work here. I don't even believe in food stamps or welfare unless the person is disabled. I don't want my tax money going to anything except running the government (military, transportation, roads, energy etc). No welfare for anyone. Not for corporations or individuals. If someone has to work 16 hours a day at two minimum wage jobs then that's on them. I've worked two jobs. My wife still works two jobs. We've never been on welfare or food stamps even though we've probably qualified on more than one occasion in the past. People are just crybabies with no work ethic.

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08-03-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 10:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  What freeloaders? Compared to western Europeans, Americans work harder and have less to show for it.

We can afford to have more of the pie we rightfully deserve, just as soon as we can wrangle control away from the real freeloaders. You know, unaccountable multinational corporations who own armies of lobbyist, and by proxy, the politicians themselves. The problem isn't social security and other welfare systems and the people that scam them, their theft is fucking peanuts in comparison to the tax breaks for just about any corporation that can make the NASDAQ or NYSE.

More of the pie? There is no pie other than the one you make for yourself.

Categorically false.

Much of the time we do not even approach equality of opportunity. I get that believing in a perfectly meritocratic just world satisfies the feels, but it isn't remotely true.

(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Now, I will agree that we should be able to keep more of our own pie (lower taxes) but taking other peoples money in the form of handouts won't work here. I don't even believe in food stamps or welfare unless the person is disabled.

So... bad luck should fuck people over forever?

(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't want my tax money going to anything except running the government (military, transportation, roads, energy etc). No welfare for anyone. Not for corporations or individuals. If someone has to work 16 hours a day at two minimum wage jobs then that's on them.

Yeah! Bad luck should fuck people over forever!

(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I've worked two jobs. My wife still works two jobs. We've never been on welfare or food stamps even though we've probably qualified on more than one occasion in the past. People are just crybabies with no work ethic.

Do you need me to explain all the fallacies inherent in this attitude?

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08-03-2016, 12:00 PM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2016 04:17 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  More of the pie? There is no pie other than the one you make for yourself.


That's a lie, and believing in it makes it easier for other people in a better position than you to fuck you over, and not only for you to not do anything about it, but instead for you thank them for doing so.


(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Now, I will agree that we should be able to keep more of our own pie (lower taxes) but taking other peoples money in the form of handouts won't work here.


And if you pay less in taxes, where do we make up the shortfall? Well the people who control the politicians, and who have already been forcing you to shoulder more and more of the tax burden, will just cut the programs that would otherwise help you and those worse off than you.


(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't even believe in food stamps or welfare unless the person is disabled. I don't want my tax money going to anything except running the government (military, transportation, roads, energy etc).


So being physically disabled is the only 'tough shit, life happens' that elicits any empathy out of you? Fuck, I'd hate to be your neighbor.


(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No welfare for anyone. Not for corporations or individuals.


Great, except all you've done is caused even more problems by doing a complete 180. Shit happens, life isn't fair, and we should have social programs in place for when life does inevitable go bad for people. Hell, there is still even a place for government money to help out private ventures (like technology research grants). The question is how much, and who pays for it. Right now we could easily do more, and burden individual citizens less, if we simply had corporate america pay it's fair share. There's zero reason for General Electric and it's billions in profits to warrant a tax refund.


(08-03-2016 11:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  If someone has to work 16 hours a day at two minimum wage jobs then that's on them. I've worked two jobs. My wife still works two jobs. We've never been on welfare or food stamps even though we've probably qualified on more than one occasion in the past. People are just crybabies with no work ethic.


The federal minimum wage started out actually being a living wage, but it has stagnated since the 1970's with the start of corporate america winning some crucial Supreme Court cases and steadily increasing their political power. If the federal minimum wage was actually a living wage (about $11.50 now, or $15 if adjusted for inflation to match the buying power of the minimum wage in the 70's, or over $20 is we account increased worker productivity since 1070's; once again, Americans are working harder and have less to show it, and this trend has been going on for decades), that alone would raise millions out of poverty and allow them to support themselves without needing other government assistance. Raising wages would actually ease the burden on social safety programs. But of course some of the largest employers in the US also have a vested interest in increasing their profits, and one of the ways they do this is my ensuring they pay as little in wages as they can get away with. Every dollar they don't have to pay in wages is another dollar they make for their shareholders, they're using safety nets to make up for the wages they won't otherwise pay; in other words they're offloading their operating costs onto the government. And who predominantly pays for those safety nets? Well, thanks again to those aforementioned lobbyists, it's not the corporations; it's the poor schmucks like us.


The country is rife with welfare abuse, and all of the worst offenders can be found on Wall Street. Round up all of the welfare queens and food stamp scammers, total them all together, and they'd amount to little more than the rounding error for GE's operating expenses. Buying politicians for hundreds of thousands can easily net you billions in returns, from favorable regulations, to grants and tax loopholes. Buying a politicians is one of the best business investments you can make.


So there is plenty of fucking pie to be had. And no, the people fighting for the crumbs and table scraps aren't the ones that we should be shaming and yelling at for not working hard enough. It's the ones that take more than half the pie, couldn't be bothered to clean up when they were done, and kicked you on the way out for the pleasure of having them over for desert.


Also, I work 60+ hours a week at two jobs, so you can go fuck yourself if you try that 'no work ethic' clap-trap with me. I run the numbers where I work, and I see the money that comes in and what goes out, and I know how much of it the owner pockets. Where I work could easily afford to pay us living wages, and if they did, they'd not only have far more well motivated workers, they wouldn't have such an abysmal turnover rate and they'd save money in not having to constantly train new people and in having a more consistent and highly trained workforce. But that's taking the long view on earning profits, but when you want more right here and right now, you instead cut corners to get the shortest turnaround on your next dollar. I've gone through 4 general managers in as many years, and I've seen them abuse salary employees by making them work at multiple locations for 80+ hour long work weeks. All of this to line the pockets of one already obscenely wealthy family and the fucking corporate nepotism that goes along with it.

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08-03-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
LDH, no welfare at all? No public assistance at all?

It seems to me that it's in the nation's best interest to ensure that people don't fall through the cracks for reasons not of their own doing -- jobs getting offshored, mother has cancer and needs in-home care that family can't afford, whatever -- because poor folks tend to turn over applecarts when they're hungry.

You don't need to take my word for it, just look at 1789, 1848, 1917, and so on.

A nation with an insufficient safety net is just as unstable as a nation with an insufficient army, only with the former the danger is from within.
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09-03-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(07-03-2016 08:19 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(07-03-2016 07:56 AM)DerFish Wrote:  I would say that anyone living in the USA in the 21st century does not know what poor means. I live in the Dominican Republic on my Social Security of just about $1000.00 USD a month. My income is higher than 80 per cent of the Dominicans. And a lot of them are extremely poor. No food stamps available very little other assistance form the government, some of them do get a slight stipend for mothers with dependent children which consists of an ATM card which is charged with about $38 a month plus another card which is used to pay for propane for cooking. This card was started because the government did not want the forests all cut down for cooking fuel as happened on the other side of the island in Haiti. This card is worth about $12.00 in American money. These people know what poor is. How many Americans white or not white do? I would guess that not even 4 thousand in the entire USA.

I won't argue against your point as a whole. I agree that most Americans are so far removed from what poverty really is that, without first-hand experience of an adequate comparison, they live quite well by global standards and still genuinely believe they're poor. The main point, however, which you also touched on, is that poverty as it is defined here, and nowhere else, is something experienced by all races. The ratio to which it is experienced is an issue, but there are nonetheless white people who have experienced poverty.

That said, given our large immigrant population, I think you'd be surprised how many there are here who have experienced the kind of poverty you're referring to. I personally know people ranging from Sudanese refugees who came here to escape genocide to people like my ex wife who lived a fairly typical life on the Chinese countryside, where the $80 per month she made working at KFC after moving to the city dwarfed anything her family could have made back home. Now, living in the states, making about $16 per hour, she could easily support her family back home with a fraction of her paycheck and allow them to live at a much higher standard than they're accustomed to.

My own family has its roots with German Russians who fled to the US in the midst of the Bolshevik Revolution. To say they were poor as shit would be an understatement.

Probably not a huge portion of the population fits into something resembling my the above examples, but in a country of more than 300 million I'd guess the number is more like a few dozen million than 4,000 Smile

I grew up poor relative to the rest of most of Americans. My parents both grew up poorer than I did. My grandparents, more still. My grandmother told me she remembered after getting out of the the great depression, and they had enough food to keep their belly full that the politicians came; and was using people like her to illustrate how poor people of my area really was. She said that's the first time she found out they were poor. She didn't know, and no one had informed her. If you don't know that you are poor, are you still poor? They didn't have cars, or indoor plumbing, or a kitchen connected to the house. Most didn't get to finish elementary and high school because they had to drop out to work the farm, as my grandpa did. He graduated the 3rd grade. No one is America is really "poor". No one is starving unless they want to starve. Some people have it better than others, sure. That isn't dependant on race. And if you don't think there are white ghettos you have not seen what I have seen. If you think people that are white are precluded from being poor, even if they work hard you have not lived where I have lived. If you think that being white protects you from adopting a lifetime of crime to make ends meet, you do not know what I know. Of course there are racists. There are white racists, and black racists. There are groups of people that get treated unfairly. I have a feeling Arab Americans face more discrimination than Blacks though.

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10-03-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(08-03-2016 12:00 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  And if you pay less in taxes, where do we make up the shortfall? Well the people who control the politicians, and who have already been forcing you to shoulder more and more of the tax burden, will just cut the programs that would otherwise help you and those worse off than you.

The top 20% of the population shoulder about 84% of income tax revenue.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of-ea...1428674384

While the rest of us the 80%, shoulder about 16%. So to imagine our society to be one in which the wealthy don't contribute a significant share, is a myth. They seem to hold more than their weight here.

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10-03-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
Who has most of the money?
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10-03-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Bernie Sanders: "When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor"
(10-03-2016 09:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  While the rest of us the 80%, shoulder about 16%. So to imagine our society to be one in which the wealthy don't contribute a significant share, is a myth. They seem to hold more than their weight here.

Absolute percentages are misleading. It fails to account for the marginal utility of money and the law of diminishing returns.

#sigh
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