Bernie Supporters
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19-05-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: Bernie Supporters
No you don't. You just need a court willing to follow the Constitution instead of a political agenda.

Corporations are artificial constructs created by statute. They are considered "persons" from a legal sense so they can be sued, register property, and even file suits. But, the idea they are citizens with constitutional protections is not in any way supported in the Constitution.

Damn conservative activist judges.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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19-05-2016, 06:49 PM
RE: Bernie Supporters
(19-05-2016 06:45 PM)BnW Wrote:  No you don't. You just need a court willing to follow the Constitution instead of a political agenda.

Corporations are artificial constructs created by statute. They are considered "persons" from a legal sense so they can be sued, register property, and even file suits. But, the idea they are citizens with constitutional protections is not in any way supported in the Constitution.

Damn conservative activist judges.

The best part is when the conservatives blame all of societal ills on liberal activist judges. I swear these fuckers are going for the stupid vote and hope it's more than the not stupid vote. I'd call it 50/50. Or maybe 45/55 'cause some of the stupid ones will forget to vote.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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19-05-2016, 06:50 PM
RE: Bernie Supporters
(19-05-2016 06:45 PM)BnW Wrote:  No you don't. You just need a court willing to follow the Constitution instead of a political agenda.

Corporations are artificial constructs created by statute. They are considered "persons" from a legal sense so they can be sued, register property, and even file suits. But, the idea they are citizens with constitutional protections is not in any way supported in the Constitution.

Damn conservative activist judges.

"No taxation without representation!"

Corporations have the responsibility to avoid pay tax therefore they have the right to buy elections.

Seems legit.

Consider

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19-05-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: Bernie Supporters
The Supreme Court agrees with you, sadly.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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20-05-2016, 06:49 AM
RE: Bernie Supporters
(18-05-2016 03:55 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I'm not actually against Bernie himself. But man oh man do his outspoken supporters annoy me.

I've been a staunch Sanders supporter and have spent hours phone banking over the last three months (well, I stopped three weeks ago).

That being said, yeah, the irrational ones piss me off, too. Any time I hear someone say they want to write in Sanders on principle, I ask them if they want Trump elected. The whole "Trump and Clinton are both the same" line of reasoning pisses me off too. The whole thing just become one big Nirvana Fallacy. If they can't have their ideal candidate, they don't care if they can get the next best one.

Clinton and Sanders vote the same something like 93% of the time, but you wouldn't think that by listening to either of their extreme supporters. This primary season can't get over fast enough.
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21-05-2016, 04:21 AM
RE: Bernie Supporters
At least Bernie knows what a Venn diagram is. Hillary is such an embarrassment for the US.

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21-05-2016, 04:34 AM
RE: Bernie Supporters
(21-05-2016 04:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  At least Bernie knows what a Venn diagram is. Hillary is such an embarrassment for the US.

I wanted Elizabeth Warren.

But a man can dream...

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21-05-2016, 04:50 AM
RE: Bernie Supporters
I like Bernie, if he would win the nomination (he hasn't got a chance) I would absolutely vote for him BUT I'm voting Hillary because I think she's a more effective politician, would put someone I want into the supreme court and would make a more successful president. Bernie is too ineffectual. The repubs will flatten him like roadkill.

IMO, if you vote repub, or support it by default by not voting dem then you are a repub. You have by your actions or inactions supported the republican party in its bid to lead the country. That makes you a repub.

Facts by unbiased reporting/polls are posted everywhere: Hill is the most honest, votes and supports nearly identically to Bernie, has more experience and more power or political pull in DC and abroad in foreign countries. If you choose to ignore this over your personal dislike of her then maybe you should examine that bias further or except the fact that logic just doesn't play into your decision making on this issue.

Repubs are killing their own party, what do you think they will do to our country and our supreme court, which will outlast any presidency, if given the chance?

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21-05-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: Bernie Supporters
(21-05-2016 04:50 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Facts by unbiased reporting/polls are posted everywhere: Hill is the most honest, votes and supports nearly identically to Bernie, has more experience and more power or political pull in DC and abroad in foreign countries. If you choose to ignore this over your personal dislike of her then maybe you should examine that bias further or except the fact that logic just doesn't play into your decision making on this issue.



You Hillary supporters never fail to crack me up. Of course your assumption would be that those who choose Bernie over her are doing so because they personally dislike her, not because your "facts" are bogus. It couldn't possibly be because she's a pathological liar (Remember when she claimed to have landed under sniper fire in Bosnia?), a war hawk (War in Iraq, Libyan intervention, etc.), criminally incompetent (e-mail scandal) and corrupt (Clinton Foundation). Here are some facts for you:

(19-05-2016 05:05 AM)BnW Wrote:  Getting back to the OP, that first cartoon is not conspiracy theories. The point it's making, as I see it at least, is that the media is looking for scandals on Trump and largely ignoring potential scandals for Clinto. I'll ignore the Benghazi one because that is received plenty of coverage. But, e-mail thing is not a "conspiracy theory". It's the focus of an actual FBI investigation that could potentially lead to the convening of a federal grand jury to determine if Clinton should be indicted for violating the Espionage Act. The stuff on the Clinton Foundation is also not a conspiracy theory. There is actual documentation on who her downs are and a lot of questions about decisions the Clinton lead State Department made that favored some of those donors. There are legitimate questions to be asked there, and the press is barely acknowledging it. So, I'm not sure what the "Conspiracy theory" is that people are laughing off.

As for the "trail of bodies", Clinton absolutely has blood on her hands. Someone asked in another thread why people dislike Hillary Clinton. I didn't respond to that but I'll give you part of the answer and it's because of all the blood.

Let's start with Iraq. Clinton voted for a bullshit war that cost over 5,000 American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. She apologized for it in 2008 and claimed she made the best judgment she could at the time with all the evidence that was available. That's demonstrably bullshit, though. There was a classified National Intelligence Estimate available to the Senate at the time and only 6 people read it. She wasn't one of them. Of the 6 who read it, 2 of those Senators, Bob Graham and Patrick Leahy, decided to vote against the war. So, Clinton likely would have voted for it anyway. But, it's simply not true that she looked at all available information. Why not read the estimate? If your a cynic about these things - and I tend to be - you may think it's so she has plausible deniability later. She doesn't wear the sin of Iraq by herself, but she wears it. However, she is part of a much smaller group who used death and destruction in Iraq to push American business agendas. This was evident in a 2011 speech she gave where she is telling American corporations to think of Iraq as a "business opportunity". She said the same thing in letters she wrote to JPMorgan and ExxonMobile. So, basically, she was pushing the same "pro-business thru war" agenda that Bush had pushed for.

Then there is Libya. Obama was not inclined on his own to start dropping bombs, but it was his hawkish Sec State, Hillary Clinton, that pushed him that way. And, forget what you read about Benghazi. The real potential conspiracy there, and one that has been largely ignored by both the Republicans and the press, is that there is evidence that the US was running weapons from out of that embassy to rebels in Syria - something that was in direct conflict with US law at the time. This came up a bit during several of the hearings but it was shut down, probably because - if true - the Republican leadership was aware of it and didn't want to highlight that they both knew about it and probably agreed with it. But, that is an Iran Contra type of scandal she may have been involved with, no one is saying "boo" about it, and you can be damn sure that not only did people die, but it is likely to have been part of the reason that embassy was targeted.

And, lastly, let's not forget poor Honduras. Honduras has a democratically elected president named Manuel Zelaya who was over thrown by a military coup. The whole region wanted to force him back into office and let him finish out his term because that is what the laws of Honduras required. Not Hillary Clinton, though. What she wanted was to force a new election, get rid of the legally elected Zelaya (who was not a US favorite) and get someone new in - which is what happened. She wrote about her great Honduras victory in her autobiography but a funny thing happened after that book was published - Honduras fell apart after her policy was implemented and became the murder capital of the world. When the paperback version of the book came out, the stuff on Honduras was missing. Probably because it became a massive embarrassment.

The fact is that, for all his bluster and racism and misogyny, Trump has none of this baggage and none of these scandals. Sure, he's disgusting and I'd never vote for him, but she's not any better.

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21-05-2016, 10:29 AM
RE: Bernie Supporters
(21-05-2016 09:01 AM)Vosur Wrote:  ...
Of course your assumption would be that those who choose Bernie over her are doing so because they personally dislike her,
...

I'll admit to a personal dislike.

I dislike anyone who lacks integrity.

Nah. Who am I kidding? In truth, I dislike all Conservatives.

Drinking Beverage

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