Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
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28-03-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 01:44 PM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  I agree. I was using a hypothetical to make a point. Obviously there's no evidence for hell, but if there was then there would be some justification for proselytizing.

But there isn't.

Quote:My point being, whatever the truth is, people shouldn't feel guilty for wanting to spread it (including atheists).

If that's your point then I strongly disagree. Religion I see as nothing more than poison, so those who want to spread this should be ashamed. Especially when spreading it=indoctrinating children.

Atheism is different beast altogether but I still don't see proselytism as something good. People should be free to choose their own way.

Quote:Religion has led to a lot of discrimination, misogyny, homophobia, etc.

So Religion has led to a lot of discrimination, misogyny, homophobia, etc. but people who think it truth shouldn't feel ashamed for trying to spread it?

Quote:So the desire to make people question their beliefs shouldn't be a bad thing.

Desire is not the same thing as action, especially action that wasn't asked for.

Quote:We shy away from doing this bc we don't think it's any of our business what other people believe, but I think the stakes are too high to just ignore religion.

Religion isn't something that can be get rid of by plying at street preacher. It's social control tool, silent protest about living conditions and at the same time way of numbing the pain, circle of like minded individuals and parents willing to indoctrinate their children. Playing at proselytizing means shit when compared to this.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-03-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 01:55 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Atheism is different beast altogether but I still don't see proselytism as something good. People should be free to choose their own way.

Challenging someone's beliefs isn't restricting their freedom to choose their own way
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28-03-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:06 PM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 01:55 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Atheism is different beast altogether but I still don't see proselytism as something good. People should be free to choose their own way.

Challenging someone's beliefs isn't restricting their freedom to choose their own way

I should have phrased it differently. But still challenging someone beliefs when that someone didn't asked is nothing more than sticking your nose where it does not belong.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-03-2017, 02:17 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:09 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 02:06 PM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  Challenging someone's beliefs isn't restricting their freedom to choose their own way

I should have phrased it differently. But still challenging someone beliefs when that someone didn't asked is nothing more than sticking your nose where it does not belong.

Let's say I'm a democrat. And I see republicans on my FB page posting things that challenge my views all the time. I didn't ask for that. But I'm also not mad about it, nor do I think it's disrespectful. Do you think it's disrespectful?
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28-03-2017, 02:21 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:17 PM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 02:09 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I should have phrased it differently. But still challenging someone beliefs when that someone didn't asked is nothing more than sticking your nose where it does not belong.

Let's say I'm a democrat. And I see republicans on my FB page posting things that challenge my views all the time. I didn't ask for that. But I'm also not mad about it, nor do I think it's disrespectful. Do you think it's disrespectful?

I don't use FB so I don't get the situation. Is this equivalent of knocking to your doors and telling something that challenge your views? If yes then it is disrespectful - I don't care for opinion of random persons and were I wanted to hear them I would ask for them. Since I'm not then pestering me with it is just rude.

Edit: Honestly though I don't care for such convoluted metaphors. If someone don't ask me about religion then I don't tell him that I see it as nonsense. Simple as that.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-03-2017, 02:22 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 01:44 PM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 01:33 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  That's pretty big if, considering number of religions and christian denominations in particular.

And since there is no evidence for Hell being real then proselytizing can not be considered virtue.

I agree. I was using a hypothetical to make a point. Obviously there's no evidence for hell, but if there was then there would be some justification for proselytizing. My point being, whatever the truth is, people shouldn't feel guilty for wanting to spread it (including atheists). Religion has led to a lot of discrimination, misogyny, homophobia, etc. So the desire to make people question their beliefs shouldn't be a bad thing. We shy away from doing this bc we don't think it's any of our business what other people believe, but I think the stakes are too high to just ignore religion.

I'm of the opinion that we should behave in a neutral manner and treat each other with respect and civility and always give each other the benefit of the doubt. Assume that people are perfectly fine in their religious cultures until such a time as they reveal that they are not. Stay out of it.

When we're among friends or with like-minded people, we can be opinionated. You don't have to be totally silent when in mixed company, but don't push your views on others who are not seeking them. It's rude and uncivilized.
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28-03-2017, 02:27 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:21 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't use FB so I don't get the situation. Is this equivalent of knocking to your doors and telling something that challenge your views? If yes then it is disrespectful - I don't care for opinion of random persons and were I wanted to hear them I would ask for them. Since I'm not then pestering me with it is just rude.

I understand. I don't think FB & door-knocking are equivalent. On FB you get to choose your friends and the pages you want to see. So if someone were offended by something I said, they could easily "unfriend" me. It's very similar to watching TV, where you're exposed to tons of ppl expressing views that challenge your own. You have the option of changing the channel. So is that disrespectful?
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28-03-2017, 02:31 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm of the opinion that we should behave in a neutral manner and treat each other with respect and civility and always give each other the benefit of the doubt.

I give others as much respect as they give me. I find it a good way to live.

Quote:Assume that people are perfectly fine in their religious cultures until such a time as they reveal that they are not. Stay out of it.

Don't need to assume, I simply don't care. Guy x like his religion? That's great, but why should I care. Lady y don't like her religion? That's not so great (or even better), but again, why should I care.

Quote:When we're among friends or with like-minded people, we can be opinionated. You don't have to be totally silent when in mixed company, but don't push your views on others who are not seeking them. It's rude and uncivilized.

I don't see much of a reason to discuss religion in mixed company as nothing good will come of this. I don't interact much with people that aren't my friends or family so this isn't problem; with co-workers I simply don't talk about anything of consequence*.


*Most of the time.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-03-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:27 PM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 02:21 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't use FB so I don't get the situation. Is this equivalent of knocking to your doors and telling something that challenge your views? If yes then it is disrespectful - I don't care for opinion of random persons and were I wanted to hear them I would ask for them. Since I'm not then pestering me with it is just rude.

I understand. I don't think FB & door-knocking are equivalent. On FB you get to choose your friends and the pages you want to see. So if someone were offended by something I said, they could easily "unfriend" me. It's very similar to watching TV, where you're exposed to tons of ppl expressing views that challenge your own. You have the option of changing the channel. So is that disrespectful?

If they know that you disagree, then yes it is disrespectful. Ability to block whatever they spout doesn't make their behavior excusable.

It really isn't hard concept to grasp - guy x didn't ask for your opinion so you don't tell him. You may have good arguments but he have every right to not giving a damn about them.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-03-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: Best Medium to talk to Religious People?
(28-03-2017 02:33 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  If they know that you disagree, then yes it is disrespectful. Ability to block whatever they spout doesn't make their behavior excusable.

It really isn't hard concept to grasp - guy x didn't ask for your opinion so you don't tell him. You may have good arguments but he have every right to not giving a damn about them.

Ok well I guess we just disagree. If challenging people's views without direct permission were so bad, then news channels wouldn't exist. I'm comfortable challenging people's beliefs on a public platform. However, I never do this one-on-one unless I'm asked. I don't believe in "pushing" my perspective on anyone. But I DO believe I have the freedom to state my own views publicly
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