Best argument against or for creationism?
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25-03-2012, 01:09 AM
Best argument against or for creationism?
I've seen some great arguments against and even for creationism, but I was wondering and wanting your opinion on the best argument you have or have heard of against creationism or even for creationism.

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25-03-2012, 01:23 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
'the bible is fiction'

even the smartest man in the world is an idiot
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25-03-2012, 01:51 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
(25-03-2012 01:09 AM)Misenhelter Wrote:  I've seen some great arguments against and even for creationism, but I was wondering and wanting your opinion on the best argument you have or have heard of against creationism or even for creationism.
Well, this is kind of an open question because the best way to start a conversation is:

"What do you believe?"
"Why?"

The reason I often ask those if someone is going on about an idea of creation (or otherwise) is that you have to understand what it is you're discussing first.

Not all creation theories are the same. Not all beliefs are the same. If it's one thing I've learned it's that there are so many denominations of churches and many different thoughts, they aren't all the same.

So which creation theory are we arguing against?
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25-03-2012, 04:53 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
(25-03-2012 01:09 AM)Misenhelter Wrote:  I've seen some great arguments against and even for creationism, but I was wondering and wanting your opinion on the best argument you have or have heard of against creationism or even for creationism.


How many grannies do you have ? Tongue There is no argument FOR Creationism that stands up against scientific scrutiny. It's always the "irreducible complexity" nonsense, in one form or another.

The best argument against Creationism is the fact that they need to invoke a creator. They usually come up with Yahweh Sabaoth, (the "Lord of Hosts" who used to be called the "god of the armies"). The best argument against him, (and his wife Ashura) that I've seen lately, is the 22 part series by Evid3nc3 on You Tube :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMl...plpp_video

Knock yourself out.

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25-03-2012, 05:09 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
^^ that is a pretty good video. I remember watching it when I first joined this forum. Makes some good points especially regarding genesis and polytheistic creation views. I've even brought up this entire argument with my sister (who is a young earth creationist) and all I got was a lot of "LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you" type argument back from her.
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25-03-2012, 06:44 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
Who created the creator?

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25-03-2012, 08:52 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
(25-03-2012 06:44 AM)robotworld Wrote:  Who created the creator?
But he's special and created everything so he didn't have to be created!

Right? Right?..... right?
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25-03-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
(25-03-2012 08:52 AM)Logisch Wrote:  
(25-03-2012 06:44 AM)robotworld Wrote:  Who created the creator?

But he's special and created everything so he didn't have to be created!

Right? Right?..... right?

Exactly. Special. The Appeal to Special Circumstance fallacy. It also assumes that there is only ONE special being, or layer of "special" beings. There could be gazillions of "special" layers, all playing with their little universe toys. If one is "special", then all could be "special". There is evidence for none. The First Cause argument is faulty for many reasons, including the problems with the Singularity. If the dimensions of spacetime began at the Big Bang, (and for now, there is NO evidence they existed prior, or outside this universe), invoking a First Cause is meaningless because there IS no "before" in whch a creative act could have happened. They always say, "nothing comes from nothing". We know from Heisenberg, (Uncertainty) and Einstein, (Relativity), that the universe is NOT necessarily intuitive, which, in the absence of ANY evidence), destroys that argument. Laurence Krause explains how the universe could have come from nothing, includng the conditions and laws that arose, and from which this happened. No First Cause is needed. (See Quantum Mechanics). Everything that present day Christianity spouts has a long, convoluted, and well known developmental human history. It is self-repudiating, sui generis , simply by the discovery and examination of the known human processes, and history. Creationism fails on every level - scientific, religious, and logical, and historical, (and BTW..literary). The human origins and history and cultural context of every word in the Bible, is known to scholars.

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25-03-2012, 11:22 AM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
I have one which have been troubling me. Not sure how do I refute this... No
"God started evolution."

I know it has something to do with the first cause argument, but I can't seem to fit it.

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25-03-2012, 01:48 PM
RE: Best argument against or for creationism?
(25-03-2012 11:22 AM)robotworld Wrote:  I have one which have been troubling me. Not sure how do I refute this... No
"God started evolution."

I know it has something to do with the first cause argument, but I can't seem to fit it.

All they're doing is adding god to the equation. What's the point? Research about Occam's Razor.

Plus, it has nothing to do with evolution, they're talking about abiogenesis. You could also ask them to simply prove it Tongue

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