Best argument for theism and supernatural
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27-11-2012, 01:25 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(27-11-2012 01:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  Really? I deny this is ever a good reason. Drinking Beverage

The cold truth is better than the comforting lie.
Well, you re just wrong-beneficial lie is better than unbeneficial truth. For nearly everyone, even for people who deny that. But i explained this for 100times now, so you should check previous posts, otherwise this will look like discussion between biologist and creatonist.

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27-11-2012, 05:15 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(27-11-2012 01:25 PM)Troll Wrote:  
(27-11-2012 01:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  Really? I deny this is ever a good reason. Drinking Beverage

The cold truth is better than the comforting lie.
Well, you re just wrong-beneficial lie is better than unbeneficial truth. For nearly everyone, even for people who deny that. But i explained this for 100times now, so you should check previous posts, otherwise this will look like discussion between biologist and creatonist.
Your argument has been unconvincing so far.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-11-2012, 05:17 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
Successful troll.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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27-11-2012, 09:36 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(27-11-2012 01:01 PM)Troll Wrote:  I dont care too much about labels. You can change the word religion with the word belief if you like. But anyway-you get the point: there is at least 1 good reason to believe-it makes you feel better. And you evil atheists have no way of denying that this is (sometimes) a very good reasonBanana_zorro
My point was that "belief" and "religion" are NOT interchangeable terms. Deism is not the same as theism. You can believe in something and totally ignore it and not care about it. Religion includes belief as well as cultural practices.

As for making you feel better, my point is that that only works when you already believe. It could make you never question your beliefs because they make you feel good. If you DON'T already believe, it's not a good reason at all (and the topic title was "BEST argument for theism/supernatural," not "best reason for believers to keep believing, therefore, I thought it was reasons for ANYONE to believe. And as stated before, if I don't believe already, then I can't just will myself to believe because it'd make me happier or more popular.)
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28-11-2012, 07:55 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(27-11-2012 05:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your argument has been unconvincing so far.
Then you should at least explain why. Because you presented no to argument at all. Just unsupported claims.

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28-11-2012, 08:03 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(27-11-2012 09:36 PM)amyb Wrote:  My point was that "belief" and "religion" are NOT interchangeable terms. Deism is not the same as theism. You can believe in something and totally ignore it and not care about it. Religion includes belief as well as cultural practices.

As for making you feel better, my point is that that only works when you already believe. It could make you never question your beliefs because they make you feel good. If you DON'T already believe, it's not a good reason at all (and the topic title was "BEST argument for theism/supernatural," not "best reason for believers to keep believing, therefore, I thought it was reasons for ANYONE to believe. And as stated before, if I don't believe already, then I can't just will myself to believe because it'd make me happier or more popular.)
You dont need to ignore god, if he ignores you... You can still have rituals and cultural practices. Anyway, maybe you re right-maybe i used the wrong labels, but even if i did, it doesnt matter for any of my arguments.

I see no reason why you cant force yourself in believing something. I think i could do that, but it would take me some time.

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28-11-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(28-11-2012 07:55 AM)Troll Wrote:  
(27-11-2012 05:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your argument has been unconvincing so far.
Then you should at least explain why. Because you presented no to argument at all. Just unsupported claims.
Because 'feeling better' is a rather vapid goal. Feeling better based on a lie is shaky ground on which to build a life.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-11-2012, 10:50 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(28-11-2012 10:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  Because 'feeling better' is a rather vapid goal. Feeling better based on a lie is shaky ground on which to build a life.
I was talking about beneficial lies. For particular lie it may be hard to decide whether it s beneficial or not, but i m 100% sure, beneficial lies exist. Probably one of the most famous is Newton physics-we know it s wrong since we discovered quantum physics-but it works well enough when considering large objects.

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28-11-2012, 11:14 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(28-11-2012 10:50 AM)Troll Wrote:  
(28-11-2012 10:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  Because 'feeling better' is a rather vapid goal. Feeling better based on a lie is shaky ground on which to build a life.
I was talking about beneficial lies. For particular lie it may be hard to decide whether it s beneficial or not, but i m 100% sure, beneficial lies exist. Probably one of the most famous is Newton physics-we know it s wrong since we discovered quantum physics-but it works well enough when considering large objects.


There is a big difference between a lie and an approximation. Newtonian mechanics is an approximation.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-11-2012, 01:32 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(28-11-2012 08:03 AM)Troll Wrote:  I see no reason why you cant force yourself in believing something. I think i could do that, but it would take me some time.
Maybe it's a personal thing, then. I could never force myself to believe something just to make myself feel good, and I have doubts that theists could tell themselves "There is no god" until they believed it, without something to make them change their minds. They could start pretending to be atheists, just like I could start pretending to be a theist, but in the back of my mind, I still wouldn't believe in deities.

People seem to act like the only way to enjoy life involves delusions, and it does not. Lots of atheists out there can enjoy stuff in life. Maybe they don't enjoy thinking about having tea and crumpets with Jesus in the afterlife, but that doesn't make life so horrid that you have to belief crazy shit. Additionally, church is not the only gathering place for humans. There are plenty of other ways to socialize. I guess I just don't understand the view that, without religion, life is so horrible it's unbearable. Because it's not.
Quote:Because 'feeling better' is a rather vapid goal. Feeling better based on a lie is shaky ground on which to build a life.
This.

if the idea of deities not existing does not bring you happiness, find happiness elsewhere. Hopefully something not based on lies. Get a hobby or something, you know?

As for physics, it's like any other branch of science: people do the best they can based upon the knowledge they have, and they build upon it and it often changes. That's the strength of the sciences, it's not a weakness. Our understanding of the world continues to grow and change, whereas with, say, Christianity, the bible does not change much, and there is nothing in it that couldn't have been written by bronze age tribal desert people. I'm sick of hearing that "science changes over time, so it sucks!" Of course it changes over time.
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