Best argument for theism and supernatural
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-11-2012, 11:31 AM
Best argument for theism and supernatural
What s the best argument for theism or claims about supernatural you have ever heard? In this thread i m assuming there are at least few half-reasonable arguments for these claims and try to find the best of them. So you re welcome to post.

For example-the best i ve heard: once i talked about this with my fuckfriend, who s some kind of new age-buddhist, i m an atheist. I explained few atheistic claims to her and she responded that i may very well be right, but it s too much thinking and i shouldnt let her brains hurt. And that anyway it would be better for us to go to bed instead of wasting our time and talking about existence of souls and things like that.
I find this argument quite convincing. Consider

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Troll's post
23-11-2012, 12:00 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
Probably was because you were tired, too.

I could give you with a few counter arguments you could tell her, but then you might not have a fuckfriend anymore.

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 01:08 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
Perhaps. Would you be a theist if your brains would start hurting every time you think too much?
Anyway there is a different way to express similar argument. It s not argument for existence of god, but it shows why religion makes some sense.

Evolution didnt make us thinking machines, but survival machines (as Dawkins would say). It s easy to demonstrate that. For example you cant sum 1000000 random numbers in reasonable amount of time, but computer can. Why? Not because computer would be more complicated than your brains, but because summing random numbers was never really important during human evolution. At any skill which is important for survival (recognizing faces, running through forest,... ) you can clearly beat any computer or robot.
Now you can imagine thinking about gods and souls wasnt that important either. Therefore human abilities and motivation to make reasonable conclusion about this things are rather bad. And if your abilities are too bad to make the right conclusion, than approximately good conclusion is the best you can get. Perhaps this conclusion is "god made us" instead of "we evolved". I think i could argue that "god made us" is the best conclusion some people could made taking in consideration their mental abilities and available information.

And another point: i think the whole reason why we like science is because it works (mobile phone, computer works... ), not because it provide some kind of higher truth for us. And basically i dont care if engineers were using "the right" physics for constructing my computer. I only care if it works.
Simillarly one could argue that religion works for him and he doesnt really care if it s true or not. And it may not be that important.

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Troll's post
23-11-2012, 03:22 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
Well, I see why she's your fuckfriend, and not a friend you converse with...

I have yet to hear any decent sounding reasons for believing. To me, it seems people are brainwashed (childhood indoctrination), want to believe for emotional reasons (the reasoning being: If there is no eternal life, I will be sad; therefore, everyone will live forever), and misinterpretation of things (interpreting things as "signs from God," hearing the voice of god, feeling the presence of the divine when these things seem to have more reasonable, natural explanations, problems with signal vs noise and seeing patterns and agency where there is none, etc).

Even for beleivers I know, it doesn't seem like there's a good external reason that applies to them all; it's more that they "feel" the supernatural exists and have had personal/emotional experiences, which does nothing to convince me.

Agreed that we didn't evolve to be thinking machines. I don't think the average human is logical or reasonable at all; people make stupid decisions based on bad emotional reasons all the time. People don't want to put forth the effort to think about things, it would make their brain hurt, so they accept whatever they're told and then, in the face of conflicting evidence, they just try to bend reality to fit the notions they already have about the world.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like amyb's post
23-11-2012, 06:28 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(23-11-2012 03:22 PM)amyb Wrote:  Agreed that we didn't evolve to be thinking machines. I don't think the average human is logical or reasonable at all; people make stupid decisions based on bad emotional reasons all the time. People don't want to put forth the effort to think about things, it would make their brain hurt, so they accept whatever they're told and then, in the face of conflicting evidence, they just try to bend reality to fit the notions they already have about the world.

Ok, i agree human behaviour is not guided by logic and reason. My favorite example is: why do you immediately move your hand away after touching very hot pan-because you reasonably consider all available options and decided this is the best one? Big Grin
But note that reason has some limitations at practical behaviour-if you could move your hand away from hot pan only after you reasonably consider all evidence and so on, you would face quite serious burns. And practical behaviour is what s really important in life.

But i dislike the word "average" here. You understand that almost everyone think he s somehow superior to average people? For example nearly everyone think his intelligence is above average. So i wouldnt like to suppose that we re some kind of superhumans here, but everyone else is stupid. That s quite bad assumption if you want to understand how other people behave. I prefer to think their behaviour make at least a bit of sense. Rolleyes

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 06:52 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
I'm taking it Troll tested out average? I sure as fuck didn't. Tongue

Anyhoo... my Gwynnies disproves all that stuff. I would say Tao, but there ain't nothing supernatural about Tao. (Well, it capitalized itself just now. Can't explain that! Big Grin )

[Image: 10289811_592837817482059_8815379025397103823_n.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
23-11-2012, 07:40 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
Troll,
The best argument for deism (not theism) or claims about supernatural I have ever heard is the one I just invented.


It is fool-proof and it's going to make me rich!


See here, post #41, for an irrefutable explanation:[/font]
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid208154

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-11-2012, 08:41 PM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(23-11-2012 06:28 PM)Troll Wrote:  But i dislike the word "average" here. You understand that almost everyone think he s somehow superior to average people? For example nearly everyone think his intelligence is above average. So i wouldnt like to suppose that we re some kind of superhumans here, but everyone else is stupid. That s quite bad assumption if you want to understand how other people behave. I prefer to think their behaviour make at least a bit of sense. Rolleyes
I wasn't meaning to make a value judgement or an assessment of intelligence, I meant it is the norm for people to not be logical because it didn't serve much purpose evolutionarily. So yes, I'd say that most people do not value critical thinking. I never assumed anyone was stupid, just that they think about things differently. So I will substitute the words/phrases "most people" or "the norm" rather than the word "average," since it works better there, yes.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-11-2012, 09:51 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
There is no good argument for theism or the supernatural. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
24-11-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: Best argument for theism and supernatural
(24-11-2012 09:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no good argument for theism or the supernatural. Drinking Beverage

Then you re welcome to refute 2 arguments i explained:
1. Religion is good for me therefore i believe. Angel
2. Some people are unable to get enough information to understand the world around them. Therefore the best available explanation for them is "god did it". For example if you have no way of understanding evolution than "god made us" is quite reasonable claim. It matches with evidence (animals appear designed) and almost everyone thought like that before Darwin and this is not because everyone was stupid before 1859, they just didnt have enough information. Smartass

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  The Satan Argument cre8ivmind 12 198 Today 08:33 AM
Last Post: Rahn127
  Approaching the Atheism/Theism convo w. someone smileXsmileXsmile 9 215 22-07-2014 08:14 AM
Last Post: smileXsmileXsmile
  Religion without supernatural phenomena flim-flam 43 555 25-06-2014 11:56 AM
Last Post: Taqiyya Mockingbird
  Agnostic-Theism-Atheist smileXsmileXsmile 49 808 03-06-2014 11:12 PM
Last Post: smileXsmileXsmile
  How would you deal with this argument? diddo97 49 777 24-05-2014 05:03 AM
Last Post: Rahn127
  The argument from evil proves that the world is horrible? WimpyPete 145 1,863 20-05-2014 02:38 PM
Last Post: WimpyPete
  A Deconstruction of the Moral Argument Reltzik 121 2,283 14-05-2014 05:49 PM
Last Post: Leo
Forum Jump: